Discussion 4.2 – Maria Rodriguez

  1. Owners and employees are different because they get their money in different ways. Owner’s make money from the work of other people and from things they own, like businesses, stocks, or property. For example, a person who owns a company can make money from the work of the employees in that company. Employees, on the other hand, work for someone else and get paid a wage or salary. For example, a cashier works for a store and gets paid for the hours they work. The reading also explains that workers create the value of products and services through their labor, while owners receive the profits. So, the main difference is that employees work to earn wages, while owners can make money from what they own and from the work of other people.

 

Thoughts on Readings 4.3 & 4.4

1. Owners vs. Employees (Reading 4.3)

Parenti basically argues that the big difference comes down to how you make your money and your relationship to property.

Owners live off investments, stocks, and property income. Their wealth grows because other people are working for them. An example of this would be a major stockholder at a giant corporation like Intel or Exxon.Employees don’t own that kind of productive wealth, so they have to sell their labor for wages or salaries just to get by. An example would be a factory worker, a service worker, or even a corporate manager whose job is to supervise other employees.

2. The Adam Smith Quote (Page 28)

I think Adam Smith is saying that human labor is the ultimate source of all value. Money is just a placeholder or a “nominal” tag we put on things. His example of the tree really clicked for me. A tree sitting in a forest doesn’t make a profit on its own. It only becomes a valuable commodity like paper or furniture of the actual human effort thatgoes into cutting it down, manufacturing it, shipping it, and selling it. Labor is what actually creates wealth.

3. Class is NOT Just an Identity (Reading 4.4)

Heideman’s main argument is that liberals often treat class like a “ladder” or a lifestyle identity, but socialists see it as an objective, economic structure that forces you to act a certain way to survive.Personally, I think this argument makes a lot of sense. If class were just an identity, you could fix economic inequality with diversity training or just changing how we talk to each other. But you can’t just “identify” your way out of needing a paycheck. A capitalist has to maximize profits to survive competition, and a worker has to get a job to pay rent, regardless of how they personally feel. It’s about real material power and who controls the resources.

4. The “Close Form of Dependency” (Reading 4.4)

When the text talks about a “close form of dependency,” it means that capitalists and workers are completely locked into a relationship where neither can function without the other. It’s different from other social dynamics because it is purely transactional and structural. The worker relies on the boss for a job and survival, but the boss is equally dependent on the worker to actually generate the profit.A good everyday example would be Amazon and its warehouse workers. The workers depend on Amazon for a paycheck to buy groceries. But Amazon’s entire corporate empire would instantly freeze if the workers stopped picking and packing boxes. The company depends entirely on their collective labor to keep its stock value up and exist as a business.

Stephen Exantus Working class

Owners and employees are different because they make money in different ways. Owners can earn money from businesses, property, stocks, or from the work their employees do. Employees, on the other hand, sell their labor and recieve a wage or salary for the work they perform. This is important in New York City because there are about 4.57 million non-farm jobs. Some of the biggest job industries are education and health services, which make up about 31.5 percent of all employment. Other major industries include retail, construction, transportation, finance, restaurants, and professional services. This shows how many people in NYC depend on working for an employer to earn their income.

For example, a restaurant owner can make money from the business while the cooks, servers, and cashiers get paid wages for their labor. The same thing happens with construction workers, healthcare workers, retail employees, and office workers. Workers are the ones doing the labor that creates goods and services, while owners can receive profits from owning the business. So basically, employees work in exchange for wages, while owners make money from what they own and from the labor of other people. I think this difference is important because it shows the difference between people who own the means of production and people who have to sell their labor to make a living.

I understand Adam Smith’s quote as meaning that labor is a big part of what gives something its value. Money can be used to buy materials and other things needed to make a product, but without people doing the actual work, the product would never get made. The effort, time, and skills that workers put into making something are what helps create its value.

To me, the quote is saying that we shouldnt only look at the price of something to understand its value. There is alot of work that goes into producing goods and services, and the people doing that work are an important part of the process. Without workers putting in their time and effort, businesses would not be able to produce the things they sell

Discussion Board 4.2

  1. The distinction that is made in reading 4.3 between owners and employees is the capital and labor. According to the text, “the owning class live mostly off investments, which include stocks, bonds, rents, mineral royalties, and other property income” meanwhile “employees live mostly off wages, salaries, and fees.” The authority and advantage to make impacting decisions for the economy and lives of employees are usually held by Owners. It is unfortunate that employees do not hold this authority and have to depend on their jobs to earn a living, with no ability to make decisions at work. 
  2. The way I decipher the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28 is the value of labor is worth more than money. Yes, money is the end all be all. However, labor is what is stimulating the economy. Wealth is a byproduct from the labor of the people working in different industries who are contributing to productivity. 
  3. My thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is not an identity, class is not about being labeled or seen as a gender or race but more about structural position because things like race and gender are important parts of who we are and can influence the way we experience life. Structural position refers to where a person fits in society based on parts of their identity and social background.
  4.  Close form of dependency is when workers and owners rely on each other, but owners maintain more power. Workers depend on owners for wages, while owners depend on workers to generate profits. For example, For example, tenants depend on property owners for housing, while property owners depend on tenants for rent.

Kailey Hurtado Morales- The Relationship Between Workers and Owners

 I understand the idea that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” to mean that workers and business owners depend on each other, but in different ways. Workers depend on employers because they need jobs and wages to support themselves, while employers depend on workers because their businesses cannot operate or make profits without people doing the actual work. This creates a relationship where both sides need each other, even though they do not necessarily have the same amount of power.

A simple example would be a restaurant. The employees depend on the restaurant owner for their jobs and paychecks, but the owner also depends on the cooks, servers, cleaners, and other employees to keep the restaurant running. If all of those workers stopped working at the same time, the owner would have a difficult time operating the business and making money. I think this is what the reading means by dependency because neither side can completely function without the other, even though their roles and interests are different.

That stays very close to Heideman’s actual argument: workers depend on capitalists for employment, while capitalists depend on workers and their labor to maintain their position and generate profits. He later explains that this dependence can actually give workers power when they act collectively. 

Steven Chavez – Social Class

1) The distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees is the difference in what they live off of. The article says that owners, such as shareholders, live off investments. These people are considered part of the corporate owning class. There are also owners of small businesses, which do not make as much. On the other hand, employees, such as factory workers, live off wages, salaries, and fees, working for the owner.

2) The quote by Adam Smith is saying that the true price of things is the work it took to make it, not the dollar amount.

3) I agree with the argument that class is not an identity. Identity is a combination of things like your traits, beliefs, snd experiences. It shapes how you see yourself. Class is not decided based on how you see yourself. It is based on whether you own any investment or business, or if you have to work for someone in order to survive.

4) This close form of dependency refers to the fact that a worker needs money to survive. To get money, they need to work for the capitalist. Without them, they wouldn’t be able to have food, water, or a place to live. But a capitalist also needs the worker. They won’t get any profit without having people to do work for them. An example is a restaurant owner needing workers to serve customers, and the workers needing to work there to get money to survive.

    Anchelina Carranza – Discussion Board 4.2

    1. The distinction that reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees is the actual work they do. The text mentions how an owner can have a company and they benefit from the workers that are doing the work for them. Employees work for companies and live off wages and salaries while owners live off of what they have already had like investments.
    2. I understand the quote by Adam Smith like the value of a product that’s made by someone has a greater value than the money being put into it. Labor is what makes everything go well. If there’s no one putting effort into the product they’re making it won’t go anywhere.
    3. I agree with the argument because class isn’t an identity that can be labeled as, since there are several factors in each group of people that differ from their economic situation and the type of work they do.
    4. I understand the quote “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” like each person has their own personal jobs and that’s how they rely on each other for economic stability.

    Discussion board 4.2 wealth in capitalism

    1. Reading 4.3 makes the distinction between owners and employees primarily by how they earn their living. Owners are the capitalist who make their money off the profits that are earned after all expenses have been paid such as supplies, utilities, and including employees. Owners live off the profits of their assets such as stocks, bonds, real estate, interests and such. An example would be a person who invests in the stock market for several years, probably decades, building up an amount of shares that now pay dividends which the investor can now live off. It is an investment philosophy that some investors have found success with over their working life, and now they can live not from wages but from the assets, stocks, they own. Contrast that with employees who primarily live off the wages they make. Whether those wages, are hourly or yearly wages. The employee is hired out for services but has no real stake in the wealth of the company, which is shared by investors. Employees include those in the middle class and even the upper middle class. Thus, an electrician who joins International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers is part of the working or employee class, some would say the working poor. As they continue along their apprenticeship they earn more and become part of the middle class and then the upper middle class. After doing working for decades and earning an above average salary and using a portion of their earning to invest in the stock market, in ETFs like SCHD, SCHG, VGT, SWPPX, VOO and even investing in individual companies like PLTR, KO, PFE, MSFT, and TMC, he could they could now live a comfortable life off the dividends making them part of the ownership class. This is an essential part of what makes America great.

    2. Adam Smith, one of the founding theorists of capitalism, noted in 1776 that “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only.” In this statement Smith is exposing the belief that an item like a chair, table or any item has a true value that cannot be truly captured by the relatively small or nonmail price that comes with money. When a skilled laborer makes a chair, it has its own intrinsic value. When the chair was raw metal, it had no real use but the skilled laborer made the metal usable by creating a chair that people could use to sit in or stand on to retrieve something high up; maybe use it to sleep in more comfortably than the floor; or use it as a weapon for self-defense. Those are just some of the uses for the chair that was only possible be of the work of the laborer. However, I think some miss the point that the nominal price paid for the which will pay the employees and for supplies is what creates usable wealth for the owner and the employees. We do not live in a system of barter rather we live in system with a stable point of exchange- money. Money is paid at an agreed price between seller and buyer. Depending on the point of exchange wealth is created or destroyed and because of this system with the freedoms of the markets with some guardrails we have created opportunities for more people than ever has been created before in a nation.

    3. In the article “Class Rules Everything Around Me” the socialist perspective on class does not permit it to be classified as an identity. The author compares the way liberals define class to how socialist define class. Liberals view class much like a ladder with different rungs and that moving up the ladder is indicative of higher social standing and comes with privileges. Therefore, thought there is racism and sexism they can be equated with the working class or the middle class or the upper middle class. Socialist however, hold a view of society as having a stratum of capitalist and workers or laborers. In this world view capitalist control or own the means of production and the workers trade time and services for pay to the capitalist. The capitalist then sells the goods or services to the boarder public whether that be the government or the private sector. Whether you are a man or woman or black or white you are a worker or a capitalist. The author gives the example that being white does not depend on how others treat you or on actions you take. Your race is non dependable variable. Rather, in the socialist view the capitalist is depended on workers and society, including the workers, are depended on those who control the means of production. The car companies are owned by shareholders large shareholders and smaller shareholders. The workers depend on the principal owners of the car companies to continue their employment. Also, the people in society also depend on the car companies to make cars that will help them to get to work, church, drop their kids off at school, or go see family. It is the interdependency that makes the socialist view of class as not quantifiable as an identity. The capitalist is necessary in the socialist viewpoint for society.

    4. The statement “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” speaks to the socialist veiw that class structures are dependent on each other. The workers are dependent on the capitalist to create jobs. The capitalist are dependent on the workers to labor for them and create value. The workers can put pressure on the owning class or capitalist for better pay and working conditions. Society also depends on the capitalist class to make products that are needed for a functioning first world society. An example would be the defense companies in America. They play a pivotal role of helping to ensure the military readiness of the nation. The usefulness of the defense companies does not stop there. It continues on to assisting with foreign policy. Defense contractors are used to equip foreign nations that are allied with the interest of America.

    Daniela Ortega – Discussion Board 4.2

    The distinction that the reading makes between owners and employees is that owners make their income that comes from the labor of other people. Employees receive wages that only represent a small portion of their labor. An example of this can be a popular restaurant owner, fine dining. They are able to exploit workers, like servers or janitors to work harder for less than minimum wage. Owners are able to profit from their workers since most workers actually need a job. 

    The way I am able to understand the quote by Adam Smith is that working is determined by how much time and effect an employee does when working. Doing work is the. It is saying that labor gives things value. Money is just a way to show value. 

    My thoughts on the main argument of reading 4.4 that supports the idea that class is NOT an identity because materials come into play. When people work for a company, they dont own it..they just work there and then they become a member of the working class and they have to start using their salary to live day-to-day. But! We are also able to look at different forms of oppression like gender or race, and even sexuality and how they also play a role in employment opportunities.

    The way I am able to understand the argument in reading 4.4 is that it’s a base. Without workers, capitalists aren’t able to grow their company nor grow their money. Workers rely on capitalists for money. And workers use this money for their daily lives like rent, groceries or other necessities. They depend on each other since capitalists pull money from their workers labor and in return the workers depend on capitalist companies for survival. An example of this can be a fast food chain and a worker…For the company, their profit comes from how much time a worker shows up, follows orders, and helps assist customers to keep everyone happy even though some don’t enjoy working there. Workers depend on these fast foods for jobs since there might not be another option and they need their job, they try their hardest to keep their job in risk of getting fired and not being able to have income to feed their family 

    4.2

    1. Reading 4.3 distinguishes owners and employees based on their roles in production. Owners are the people who own the means of production and make money from the business, while employees sell their labor in exchange for wages. For example, a restaurant owner owns the business and makes money from it, while the workers serve customers and receive a paycheck.

    2. I understand Adam Smith’s quote as saying that labor is an important source of economic value. The work people put into producing a good or service is what gives it value, not just the money that is attached to its price.

    3. I agree with the argument in Reading 4.4 that class isnt simply an identity. Class is more about a someone’s position in the economic system and whether they own productive property or have to work for wages. Someone can identify as middle class because of their lifestyle, but their actual place in the economy can still place them in the working class.

    4. The close form of dependency means that workers and owners depend on each other, but in different ways. Workers depend on employers for jobs and wages, while owners depend on workers to produce goods or services and help generate profits. For example, an Amazon driver can depend on Amazon for job security and a paycheck, while Amazon the company itself depends on drivers to deliver products to customers.

    Frank Cosgriff – 4.2

    1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.
    2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?
    3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?
    4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?

    1. Owners are people who are able to live primarily off of their investments (stocks, bonds, rents, etc.) Colloquially, their money makes money. Employees are people who live off of their labor. Jeff Bezos, owner of Amazon, lives off the wealth generated by his companies and financial maneuvering. Amazon’s warehouse workers are employees, trading their labor in Bezos’s warehouses for wages – a fraction of the wealth generated by their work.

    2. Adam Smith believed that the true value of a product was best measured by the labor that went into its creation and distribution, including the labor that may have gone into producing the tools, materials, and whatever other means used in the process. This, to me, places labor in a superior position in the balance between labor and capital.

    3. I agree that class is something separate from identity. While facets of identity may or may not be something we choose for ourselves, identity by no means determines our actions. We are free to choose our actions whether or not they conflict with or identity. The socialist idea of class, however, is determined by the actions we’re able (or forced) to take. Being a worker or being a capitalist is an identity we must actively take part in in order to survive, and as such is a fundamental concern, though other aspects of identity may impact how we’re able to function within our class role, or may be impacted by our class.

    4. To say that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency,” is to say that the capitalist and the worker cannot exist without that other. Workers depend on capitalists to purchase their labor; capitalists depend on workers for their labor. Forklift operators rarely own their own forklift; they depend on the warehouse owner to provide one and to hire them to drive it. In the reverse, warehouse owners depend on forklift operators and other workers to perform the essential functions that make a warehouse profitable.