Discussion Board 6.2 By Tanjin

1. It reminds me of social classes. Madison says a faction is a group united by a common interest that goes against the rights of other citizens. He says property creates different interests and parties like the rich and the poor, or creditors and debtors. Parenti calls the poor majority the majority faction.

2. Madison says wealth comes from the different faculties of people. Faculties means abilities, talents, and skills. In his view, some people have more ability to get property, so they become rich. Others have less ability, so they stay poor. He says property rights come from this difference. So he explains wealth and poverty by people’s own abilities, not by luck, birth, or unfair laws.

3. I only partly agree. Talent and hard work matter, but they are not the whole story. Many people are born into rich or poor families, and that gives them very different chances. In 1787, enslaved people and women could not own property no matter how talented they were. Madison himself was from a rich slaveholding family. So I think his explanation leaves out a lot.

4. Madison says the first object of government is to protect the different and unequal abilities of people to get property. In simple words, the main job of government is to protect people’s right to get and keep wealth. Yes, it surprised me. Today we usually say the government’s job is to protect freedom, keep people safe, and serve all the people. Madison puts property first, and that mostly helps the rich.

5. No, it makes sense now. A pure democracy means the people rule directly, and in 1787 most people were poor. Madison says a majority united by a common interest could hurt the rights of others, and he feared the poor majority would cancel debts or divide property. That would hurt the rich, who were the creditors and the property owners. In a republic, a few elected people make the decisions, and the country is large, so it is harder for the poor majority to unite. This protects the wealthy class from the poor majority.

Jamison Jimenez Discussion Board 6.2

1)What concept that we have already discussed does “faction” remind you of?

“Faction” reminds me of social classes because it is a group of people who share similar interests and goals.

2)According to Federalist #10 (written by James Madison), what is the source of wealth (private property)? What factor explains why some people get to possess wealth by owning private property, and others don’t (thus remaining poor)?

Madison believed wealth comes from people having different abilities and opportunities to gain property. These differences can cause some people to become wealthy while others stay poor.

3)Do you agree with this explanation of wealth and poverty?

I don’t fully agree because becoming wealthy is not only about someone’s abilities. Some people have more opportunities and advantages than others.

4)What is the core mission (“first object”) of the US government? Does this surprise you, does it sound different from what our society today seems to suggest the core mission of the government is? Explain.

Madison says the government’s “first object” is to protect people’s different abilities to gain and own property. This surprised me because today we usually think the government’s main job is to protect everyone’s rights and safety.

5)Given the discussion in questions 1-4, are you surprised that Federalist #10 is not in favor of democracy, and supports a Republican (representative) form of government? Why would the author dislike a (pure) democratic form of government?

I’m not really surprised because Madison worried that the poorer majority could have more power over the wealthy minority. He believed a representative government could limit that power.

Discussion Board Post 6.2 Zenclaire Jones-Russell

Faction reminds me of social classes and modern special interest groups. Madison described a faction as a group of citizens united by a common passion or economic interest that runs counter to the rights of other citizens or the interests of the community as a whole. According to Madison, the source of private property is the “diversity in the faculties of men”. This context explains that a person’s natural talents, abilities and skills are the faculties. It’s explained that wealth inequality happens because of people showing capability in different ways. Higher faculties accumulate wealth and property whereas the lower faculties stay poor. The authors viewed class differently is a natural result of human differences instead of societal flaws. I will say I disagree with Madison’s explanation of wealth and poverty because it ignores systemic inequality. Individual talent and hard work are a factor, but Madison overlooked the structural advantages such as inherited wealth or having access to resources actually dictate who gets to own property and who remains poor. Wealth isn’t a reflection of natural ability. Madison states that the “protection of these faculties” meaning the protection of unequal distribution of property is the “first object of government”. It’s interesting because modern political rhetoric usually suggests the core mission of government is the promotion of welfare, protecting equal and ensure safety. Madison’s view states the prioritization of safeguarding private property and the wealth gap over social equality. Given his view and focus on protecting property, this doesn’t surprise me that Madison opposes a pure democracy but favors a representative republic. His dislike for pure democracy linked this to the poorer majority would have voting power. His fear of the lower social class uniting to outvote the wealthy minority would cause the passing of laws for debt relief or wealth redistribution that can destroy the economic standing of the upper class so having a republic filter for these demands through elected officials help protect the interest of elites instead.

JIAHUI LIN-DB 6.2

1.Factions remind me of the concept of social class. The capitalist and working class are divided by different interests. They harm the rights of others in pursuit of their own specific interests, and unite based on the same interests.

2.According to James Madison, the source of wealth is from different and unequal faculties of acquiring property. Faculties means people’s talents, skills, and abilities. Because individuals have unequal faculties, they have different degrees and kinds of property. Those with higher abilities accumulate wealth, but those who lack these faculties remain poor.

3.I don’t totally agree with this opinion because it’s too narrow to explain the reason. In society, so many issues like family background, different social class, different opportunities all can affect wealth and poverty, not just individual faculties. Even if the person may have specific ability, he may lack opportunities and remain poor.

4.The first object of the US government is protecting the unequal faculties of acquiring property, which deepen the social class division. Yes, this core mission really impressed me, because today’s government aims to protect equal rights, promote democracy, and increase public services. These two missions are totally different, and indicate that the working class make a huge progress on fighting for their equal rights.

5.No, I am not surprised at all, because according to the reading materials, the framers dislike democracy, they considered it as the worst of all public evils, and thought the country’s problems were caused by the turbulence and follies of democracy. James Madison was afraid of pure democracy because he was terrified of tyranny of the majority. From social class, the capitalists just were a few part of the population, and the working/indebted class were the majority. The majority could cancel debts, lower tax, or divide the properties equally through pure democracy. However, it definitely threatens the wealth and power of the ruling class, and affects the social class structure a lot. Therefore, Republican(representative) was a way to protect the power and properties of capitalists by indirect election, and stop the majority from taking over. 

Shuqi Yu — The Constitution

1. The concept of “faction”

“Faction” reminds me of class conflict which is the opposing interests between the propertied minority and the propertyless majority.

2. The source of wealth

The source of wealth is the diversity of human faculties. Madison believed some people possess wealth because they have a stronger ability to acquire property, while others are poor due to their weaker ability. The unequal distribution of property results from the protection of unequal faculties.

3. I disagree. Madison claimed that wealth comes from the natural talents of the unequal and attributed poverty to low ability. The statement naturalizes inequality and ignores the structural reason, including inheritance, slavery, legal privileges and property qualifications. The explanation merely defends the existing class structure by making inequality seem natural and deserved, rather than viewing it as a product of power and exploitation.

4. Core mission

The government’s first object is the protection of these different and unequal faculties of acquiring property. In other words, they want to protect property rights and the resulting inequality. This is different from the idea that the government should give everyone a fair chance and provide support for everyone. However, in reality, some government policies still benefit people with more wealth and resources.

5. No, I am not surprised. Madison dislikes pure democracy and supports a republic because pure democracy would let the propertyless majority rule directly and potentially redistribute wealth and abolish debts. Meanwhile, a republic filters public views through representation, allowing the wealthy minority to govern while maintaining the appearance of popular government. In short, the fundamental reason of Madison’s behavior was to protect the interests of the wealthy.

Justin LeGendre – Discussion Board 6.2

  1. One concept we’ve reviewed that faction reminds me of is social class. In the reading, Madison described a faction as a group of people with common interests and the group can either make up a majority or a minority. This reminded me of our discussions about the working class and the wealthy or owning class because each class shared interests based on their position in society, like workers sharing interests around wages and working conditions, well the only class may share in interest in protecting their property and wealth.
  2. The source of wealth and private property, according to Madison, comes from people’s different abilities or “faculties” to acquire property. He believed that people have different and unequal abilities, which resulted in some people acquiring more property and wealth than others. These differences were the reasons why people ended up owning different amounts and types of property, which then separates society into different interests and groups.
  3. I agree that someone’s abilities and work ethic can definitely play a role in their overall success, but I don’t completely agree with Madison’s explanation of wealth and poverty. I think there are also systems and barriers in place that can make it harder for ordinary people, especially marginalized groups, to own property or achieve the same level of success as others. Because of that, I think it’s hard to explain why some people are wealthy and others are poor based only on individual ability without also acknowledging the larger systems and circumstances that can help people succeed or make it harder for them to do so.
  4. the first object of government is to protect peoples different abilities or faculties to acquire property, according to Madison. This does surprise me because it sounds different from what society today usually suggests the government’s core purpose is. Without really taking a deeper dive into history and understanding how the constitution and our government were formed, I think most people would assume that the government’s main purpose is simply to protect and support the working class people. After reading this along with the previous readings, I can see how protecting property was a major concern and how that could benefit the wealthy and property owning class over regular every day citizens.
  5. No, I’m not necessarily surprised after going through the readings, but I was surprised actually reading Federalist No. 10 and seeing Madison’s argument for myself. He disliked the pure democratic form of government because he believed a majority faction could gain too much power and use it to push its own interests. This, for me, connects to social class because the majority is largely made up of ordinary, working, propertyless people whose economic interests could be different from those of the wealthy, property owning class. With a republic, instead of everyone directly making decisions, people elect representatives who would make those decisions for them. Madison believed these representatives could filter public views and prevent a majority faction from gaining too much control, potentially pushing the wealthy out of power.

Aaron Sierra – 6.2

  1. A faction seems to be similar to social classes that were discussed in our previous readings. According to Madison, a faction refers to a number of individuals who have the same interest or passion and work against the rights of other people or the interests of the entire community. It seems very similar to the classes that were mentioned by Parenti and Beard such as poor debtors and rich creditors. For Madison, the root cause of a faction is the unequal distribution of property.
  2. “Faculties” refers to the natural gifts, talents, and skills of an individual. According to Madison, humans differ in their faculties, which give rise to the right to property ownership. Those who possess certain faculty find it easier to gain more property than others who possess different or few faculties. In other words, Madison believed that the wealthy are wealthy because they possess many natural talents, and poor because they possess fewer talents. Hence, the framers were looking upon class in this manner because for them the difference in wealth between people was natural.
  3. I partially agree with Madison’s explanation. It is true that everybody has different talents and skillfulness and being diligent can lead one to prosperity. But Madison does not find the explanation of the causes of being rich or poor purely within ability. Firstly, there are a lot of people who are born rich due to the inheritance of wealth or lands. Secondly, the lack of opportunities for some categories of population such as slaves, women, and indentured servants could not own any property because the laws prevented them from doing it. These people were poor because of the social system, not because they had less talent. In our times we have to admit that a child whose parents are poor faces worse schools and less opportunities and money compared to a child of wealthy parents. Thus, nowadays being rich or poor also depends on the social background.
  4. First of all, Madison says that the primary task of the government is to secure people’s unequal natural ability to acquire property. In other words, the primary goal of the government is the protection of property and inequality of people in wealth. I was surprised by this idea because it differs greatly from the contemporary ideas of the role of the government. Usually, we think that the primary goal of the government is the protection of freedom, security, equality, and general welfare of the citizens. People also expect government assistance for needy people through such programs as education and Social Security. Madison’s idea is much more narrow. He prioritizes the protection of unequal wealth, while the modern idea of government serves all citizens.
  5. This was predictable. With the government’s prime responsibility being the protection of property, and the majority of the population lacking property ownership, having the will of the majority to govern would be dangerous for the rich. In a direct democracy, citizens are the ones making decisions. What worried Madison is the possibility of the poor majority forming a faction and using their decision-making powers to choose policies that disadvantage the rich, such as cancellation of debt or sharing of property. Since he argued that factions arise as a result of unequal distribution of property, the largest faction would consist of the numerous poor versus the few rich. The republic resolves the issue in two ways. Firstly, by the people choosing a smaller number of representatives to make decisions rather than deciding directly, and secondly by the sheer size of the country that makes it difficult for the majority to form a faction since there would be different groups with diverse interests. That is why Madison preferred a republican government over a democracy because in the former, the people had a voice without threatening the interests of the propertied class.

Ben Y’Barbo – DB 6.2

1. Faction reminds me of social class. Madison defines a faction as a group of citizens united by a common interest that goes against the rights of others, and he says the most common and durable source of faction is the unequal distribution of property, between those two hold it and those who don’t. That’s close to Marx’s two-class view, and to Heideman’s point that class positions come with common interests that put the two sides directly at odds.

2. According to Madison, property comes from the “diversity in the faculties of men.” Faculties here means a person’s natural abilities: their talents, skills, and mental and physical capacities. Since those abilities are unequal, some people are better at acquiring property than others, and different amounts of property “immediately” result. So in his view, what separates the wealthy from the poor is individual ability, or as Parenti sums it up, government is there to make sure those with “a talent for getting rich” aren’t held back by those who might be made poor in the process.

3. I partly agree. Ability can make a difference in what someone earns; a skilled machinist will usually make more than an unskilled worker, same for a baseball player. But it doesn’t explain who owns wealth. Parenti shows that most people die in the class they’re born into, the superrich mostly inherit their fortunes, and the poor tend to stay poor no matter how hard they work. Even the framers’ wealth didn’t come from talent alone, since many of them bought up nearly worthless paper scrip from poor holders and cashed it in at face value under the new Constitution. It’s also ironic, Marx defined labor power as the mental and physical capabilities in a person, basically Madison’s faculties, and as we saw with surplus value, those faculties do create wealth, just not for the people who have them.

4. Madison says the “first object” of government is protecting the different and unequal faculties of acquiring property, which in practice means protecting property and the inequality that comes with it. Given what’s been covered this semester, this doesn’t surprise me. Article I, Section 8, which covers commerce, taxes, debts, and currency, was adopted within a few days with little debate, and Parenti describes all of it as being of primary concern to investors, merchants, and creditors. It does sound different from what society tell us, though. In school, the government’s mission is usually presented as protecting freedom and serving “We the People, “ not protecting property, which feels like Althusser’s ISA at work: the founding gets taught as a story about liberty, while the property side rarely comes up.

5. No, it doesn’t suprise me. If property comes form unequal faculties, and the first object of government is protecting that inequality, then the biggest threat is the propertyless majority, who could directly vote for debt relief or redistribution in a pure democracy where citizens govern in person. A republic solves that problem for the properties class in two ways. First, the public’s views get passed “through the medium of a chosen body of citizens,” so the majority’s demands are filtered before they become policy, and the Constitution added even more filters, like senators being chosen by state legislatures instead of voters. Second, a larger republic makes it harder for the majority to unite, so a “rage for paper money” in one state is less likely to spread to the whole Union. It reminds me of Althusser’s Democratic Apparatus: people get the form of choice, while the substance stays protected. 

Nusrat Akhi

1. What concept that we have already discussed does “faction” remind you of?

The word “faction” reminds me of different groups in society having different interests. It is similar to social classes because people from different classes can want different things. For example, wealthy people may want to protect their property and money, while poorer people may want more opportunities and help from the government.

2. According to Federalist #10, what is the source of wealth and why are some people wealthy while others are poor?

Madison says that private property comes from the different abilities people have. The word “faculties” basically means a person’s abilities, skills, or talents. He believed that people have different abilities and interests, and this leads some people to own property and become wealthy while others do not. So, he saw differences in people’s abilities as one reason why there are rich and poor people.

3. Do you agree with this explanation of wealth and poverty?

I agree with it only partly. I think people’s skills and abilities can help them become successful, but I don’t think that is the only reason some people are rich and others are poor. Things like family money, education, opportunities, and where someone grows up can also make a big difference. Someone can work very hard and still struggle financially.

4. What is the core mission or “first object” of the U.S. government?

The main purpose of the government, according to Madison, is to protect property and the rights connected to it. This surprised me because I usually think the government’s main job is to protect and help all people equally. The reading makes it seem like protecting property was very important to the people who created the government.

5. Why does Federalist #10 support a Republican form of government instead of pure democracy?

I am not really surprised that Madison preferred a Republican form of government. If everyone directly voted on every issue, he was worried that the majority could take action against the property or interests of wealthy people. The wealthy class had a lot to lose because they owned land and property. I think this shows that social class was an important reason why the writers of the Constitution were worried about pure democracy. They wanted representatives to make decisions instead of having the majority directly control everything.

Discussion

  1. What concept that we have already discussed does “faction” remind you of? 

Ideology

  1.  According to Federalist #10 (written by James Madison), what is the source of wealth (private property)? What factor explains why some people get to possess wealth by owning private property, and others don’t (thus remaining poor)? This is a key question, because it shows how the authors of the Constitution thought about the difference between different classes of Americans! HINT: focus on the passage that begins: “The diversity in the faculties (WHAT DOES FACULTIES mean or refer to?) of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not les….”

He believed that people acquired wealth through “talent” this i supported when he says  “So government is there to see that those who have a talent for getting rich are not hampered in any way by those who might be made poor in the process.” 

  1. Do you agree with this explanation of wealth and poverty?

No I do not agree that rich people get rich solely because of talent. Some people get rich off luck or other thing…

  1. What is the core mission (“first object”) of the US government? Does this surprise you, does it sound different from what our society today seems to suggest the core mission of the government is? Explain. 

 Their core mission was “The protection of these faculties is the first object of government. From the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property.” And it does not surprise me that these selfish men made rules to protect themselves and it does not sound that much different than things today. For example rich people still try to find loop holes to be taxed less. 

  1. Given the discussion in questions 1-4, are you surprised that Federalist #10 is not in favor of democracy, and supports a Republican (representative) form of government? Why would d the author dislike a (pure) democratic form of government? Hint: think about how this question connects with the social classes…

No, i am not surprised these men gathered to make rules just to protect their own wealth and manipulate society into thinking they have right and that they matter