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Which one of the vignettes from pages 56 – 109 of The House on Mango Street made the strongest impression on you? In a post of at least 150 words, identify the vignette and discuss its theme or central idea, explaining why it resonated for you. As with last week, please do not discuss the same vignette someone else has discussed, if possible.
You only have to post once this week in consideration of Reading Days. But do feel free to post a farewell message to your colleagues. This has been one of the best discussion groups ever!
69 thoughts on “Week 16 Discussion”
“Sire” is the neighborhood boy that Esperanza develops a crush on. Her parents say he’s a “punk” and should be avoided but Esperanza is sexually maturing and she wants to be liked by boys. When she notices Sire has a girlfriend named Lois, she starts to dream about being in Lois’ place. Esperanza’s mother says that Lois is the kind of girl that goes “into alleys,” but Esperanza still wonders what it would be like to be her.
I decided on “Sire” because it is an important piece that expresses her moment of growing up. It is an important stage for all girls when they mature and desire love but a challenge between their sexuality and innocence. Esperanza starts to become curious and wonder what its like to do sexual things. This is also very similar to “A Rice Sandwich” because she wants to be like Lois.
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Angela, thanks for starting things off this week. Yes, I think many of us can remember the allure of the “bad boy” and the intrigue of the bad boy’s girlfriend. I was in awe of girls who go “into alleys.” It sounds like you can remember these feelings too.
Hello Angela,
In my opinion, this is a very universal feeling. It’s in our nature to be intrigued, curious about things that we’re unfamiliar with, and especially things that are collectively recognized as being “wrong.” In this vignette, it’s clear that Esperanza is learning to navigate the challenges that come hand in hand with the process of maturation and growing up, and in particular, we see her struggling to understand the concepts of jealousy and desire she feels when she sees Sire and Lois together. This is a struggle that is fundamental to reaching adulthood, and I love that you chose this vignette for this week’s discussion board contribution– I think we can all relate.
“No, speak English,” tells the story of Mamacita, the wife of one of Esperanza’s neighbors. Her husband brought her and their baby to the United States. Mamacita has an obese appearance and hardly comes out of her apartment. The neighbors think that she does not leave the apartment because she is too obese to do so, but Esperanza discovered that in reality, she does not leave because she is afraid to speak English and does not want to learn to speak it. When Mamacita’s baby is learning to speak English, she tells him not to speak English. I liked this vignette because it reflects the reality of many people who emigrate to other countries without speaking the language. I am one of those people. It is a really frustrating situation not being able to communicate and express what we feel. The fear of the unknown paralyzes us, this is what happened with Mamacita, she did not want to speak English because she was afraid of it. I lived in a similar situation when I was learning to speak English. I remember that I was trying to speak it with someone and my pronunciation was really bad and someone laughed at me publicly, that was truly embarrassing. That day I was frustrated and no longer wanted to speak more English. After that, it took a long time for me to try to speak English again.
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Hi Raquel,
I really like the comparison you made with a real life experience you had with the story. It really brings out the reason why you chose it and I can see why the situation you had could make any migrant who doesn’t know English feel afraid. Good job!
Raquel, thank you for adding some personal reminiscence into your post. It takes so much courage to put oneself out and endure the teasing or disdain. In the end, it is worth it though, as I’m sure you have come to see now that you are a college student and well on your way to a good life in this country.
Hey Raquel – first and foremost, thank you for sharing your personal experiences as they relate to a rather sensitive subject illuminated within the “No Speak English” vignette. I think there’s a lot to be said for your particular choice of vignette, especially given your experiences – which by the way, I’m flabbergasted at the idea of Americans jabbing at others for being unable to speak English well when it seems to be common knowledge that many Americans are unaware of our own lack in ability to speak other languages (likely due to many Americans’ sense of exceptionalism – that is another conversation). Also – if it helps, I can’t tell you how often I catch Americans who have spoken English their entire lives and sometimes make grammatical slips – I know I do!
At any rate, your choice of vignette obviously reflects on one of the most difficult facets of society that immigrants will inevitably face, no matter where it is they are travelling to – and that is the issue of language. For the most part, I think it is easy to presume language as one means to identify one’s identity. And being that identity is obviously so intimately connected to our idea of who we are, it can be agonizing to have to confront and comport to an identity that might not be one’s own – thus, the issue of learning another language seems to be one that is a hefty burden to overcome in order to connect to others. I applaud your efforts in challenging this notion and hope you continue to defy those who don’t believe you are linguistically capable of articulating your beliefs – for people who make fun of others the way you had described says a lot more about them than it does about you.
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When reading the other half of The House on Mango Street there were lots of good vignettes to pick but my favorite was “What Sally Said”. It is a short vignettes but it gives the reader a lot of mental and emotional detail to the background of the story. The vignettes is about a girl in Esperanza’s school named Sally who comes into to school with bruise marks all over her. She gets these from her father who does this from emotional distress due to the family’s other daughter leaving with a man. Apparently this act brought shame to the family and is the root to the fathers abuse. Sally tells others that it wasn’t her father but her just falling down the stairs but everyone knows she’s lying. Esperanza invites her to stay with her family in hopes of helping her she agrees and partially moves in with her family. Eventually the father arrives but he’s not mad and Esperanza says he is crying and saying he is sorry for what he did and would stop causing Sally to go see him. Though the story seems to turn to the light it eventually returns to being dark when her fathers severely beats her because Sally had talked to a boy. The beating was so bad it she was out of school for two days.
I had really like this vignette because as I read this whole short story I felt heavy feelings of dread and sadness. I felt bad for Sally clearly seeing she is the victim of abuse that is completely fueled by the emotional trauma the father had experienced when losing his first daughter and I felt dread seeing what Sally is going through and its clear through Esperanza’s writing she wish’s to help her and stop what is happening to her. To conclude I really felt a lot of emotion when reading this short story and i have to give it to the author for creating it with such an impressive feeling.
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From The House on Mango Street, I chose “Who Wakes Up Tired in the Dark”. The theme of this vignette is sadness. They develop a story of a dad finding out his dad died. They talk about how the dad was sad because the grandfather died. This vignette resonated me because I’ve been through situations like that. When they say “Your abuelito is dead, Papa says early one morning in my room.” is what got me the most because I remember being told this words twice with my grandparents death. I remember when I was little my grandmother died and my dad and uncles had to fly to their hometown. I remember every family member of mines was in my house crying. When I woke up I was very confused because everybody was crying but I did not know why. They were very upset and felt lonely. Just like in this vignette I never saw my dad cried before. This vignette resonated me because as I was reading it myself wen back to that day. I remember everybody was sad , crying and devastated by the bad news my family had.
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Jeidy, thanks for these good comments. You describe so well the bewilderment you felt as a child seeing your adult relatives crying. It’s a very terrible moment, isn’t it, when we see these adults—especially a father—in tears? For many, it is life’s first epiphany, the first time we realize that our parents or elders are human and not invincible.
Hello Jeidy,
I agree seeing a parent cry for the first time can be confusing for a young person. Particularly when you try to understand the meaning of death as an adult tries to explain it to you. I could totally relate to Sandra and understand the responsibility she inherited from the death of a loved one.
In my experience, the classic Latin family dynamic tends to treat the oldest child like an adult. Responsibility tends to fall on the oldest this also means the child learns and matures faster. on the other hand, this responsibility can create animosity and rebellion. I have seen both scenarios play out.
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The vignette that had the strongest impression on me from the other half of The House on Mango Street is “Papa Who Wakes Up Tired in the Dark.” This vignette talks about the death of Esperanza’s grandfather, using the term “abuelito.” This vignette showed deep passion and emotion throughout and that’s why is stands out to me.
The feeling of confusion and uncertainty on what to be done when Esperanza saw her father crying is relatable to how I am going to feel if it’s my father. “I have never seen Papa cry and don’t know what to do” sums up the emotion that ran through Esperanza’s head that early morning. Majority of individuals see their fathers as symbols of strength and power, so to see them in a more vulnerable bubble will definitely come as a shocker to those people. One thing that I noticed was that Esperanza’s reaction to her dad prevents readers from seeing how she actually felt…was she sad that her grandfather just died or he father was crying? Difficult questions to answer.
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Ebube, I couldn’t agree more about the devastating and also scary idea of a father, usually the embodiment of strength in a family (not because mothers aren’t strong but because fathers often do not show their emotions as much). As I just mentioned to Jeidy, this moment of realization that fathers are not supermen is often one of a child’s first real-life epiphanies. You ask an interesting question at the end of your post. I think the author has decided to explore this specific aspect of the experience. But maybe it is true that the sight of her father in tears was more affecting to her than her grandfather’s death.
Ebube, I really like your analysis of this vignette. I especially appreciate how you point out Esperanza’s reaction to seeing her father cry for the first time. We see our parents almost as these omnipotent figures that can never be broken, since after all, they’re there to life you up in your lowest moments. This is the first time Esperanza realizes her father is human, just like her.
You know, we’ve been discussing the theme of lost innocence during these last two weeks with the stories that we’ve read. This vignette is the perfect example of just that. Esperanza finally realizes the dark and cruel reality of the circle of life. She finally comes to grip with the mortality of her father, and her own as well. There’s no going back.
In the story of The House on Mango Street made the strongest impression on me is “Red Clowns” because I have seen a clown movie, which impressed me very much. Although I don’t know if you have ever watched a movie named “IT”, the clown in it plays a terrifying role. In the movie, the clown will use the things that others feel most afraid of or guilt to confuse them, make them feel fear and welcome the arrival of death. I think that besides the name has something to do with this “clown”, the experience of Esperanza in this story is also unfortunate. Esperanza was raped, not because she didn’t know how to protect herself, but because her friend Sally abandoned her, leaving her alone, which led to her being targeted by a malicious man. So this central idea tells us that girls cannot be alone outside, and they must find trusted friends to accompany or go out together, so as to ensure their own safety. Go to places with few people as much as possible outside, so that you can avoid unnecessary or dangerous things from coming to yourself.
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Hello Mei Yan
In the vignette “Red Clowns”, Esperanza is blind and naive she did not see she is misled by sally before she gets assaulted by the man. In the vignette, Esperanza said Sally’s name multiple times, because Esperanza blem Sally entirely for what happened to her and her not happy about it. The way she asked Sally questions it looks likes she trusted her but now she is very disappointed. Sad story for Esperanza.
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Hi Mei Yan, I have to say that I agree with you. Sometimes going outside by yourselves can be dangerous especially if you’re a girl. Any strong person can just grab you and nobody will know and that’s very scary. I did no watch the movie “IT” but I saw commercials and trailers and looked very scary. I can see that Esperanza was very upset with the way Sally left her all alone outside.
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Mei Yan, yes, the inclusion of the clowns in “Red Clowns” definitely lends a macabre quality to the sexual assault experienced by Esperanza. I have to admit that I didn’t think it was an actual rape, but maybe I just didn’t want to think that. It was a traumatic molestation, whatever happened. And there is, as you write, a sense of betrayal in this vignette. Not only does Sally abandon her, leaving her vulnerable to the attack; she has also told untruths about what sex and what it can be like.
“Rafaela Who Drinks Coconut & Papaya Juice on Tuesdays” is the vignette I will be discussing. Before Reading “Rafaela Who Drinks Coconut & Papaya Juice on Tuesdays” the vignette before is called “No Speak English” with Mamacita. She is trapped in her home, she is brought here by her husband and she does not like the country and she wants to go back. And before that vignette, it seems like in all the preview vignettes the women are featured in their homes and look like they are prisoners of their circumstance.
Rafaela is a sad and trapped character. She is held hostage by her husband who thinks she is too beautiful so if she gets outside he might lose her or she might run away. She would like to go outside and dance at the bar before she gets old. Since she can not do that she would stay in and look outside by the window. When the kids on the street agreed they could buy her something at the store Rafaela asks for coconut or papaya juice, all she desires in her life is something sweet, and very different from the life she has. She is aware outside women much older than her are having a good life.
Reading “The House on Mango Street” makes me sad in general, it is mostly sad stories. It seems to some characters doing bad things or having a miserable life is something normal.
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Souadou, I agree that “Rafaela Who Drinks Coconut and Papaya Juice on Tuesdays” is sad and poignant, telling the story of a beautiful young woman whose life has basically come to a halt. It evokes the Rapunzel story in which the young girl is held captive by a witch. As some have pointed out in the forum, the stories in the latter part of the book do seem to take on a darker tone as Esperanza learns more about the world, its dangers, its losses, and its sorrows.
“Geraldo No Last Name” (p. 65-66)
As many readers in the class are starting to observe – the second half of Cisneros’ “House on Mango Street” takes us away from the idyllic gloss of childhood and into the harsh reality of – well, the rest of life – although readers may debate Esperanza’s youth and innocence insofar as she herself is becoming a young adult who eventually leaves Mango Street behind (if only to, in her words, go away “to come back”).
“Geraldo No Last Name” captures what we have seen in the works of Week 12 – then, I had discussed Joseph O. Legaspi’s “Amphibian” and the reality of the immigrant’s struggle through constructing and maintaining a dual sense of identity. Here, Cisneros allows the reader a limited (I actually want to use the word “redacted”) perspective on that which gives immigrants a humanistic quality – the reader imagines Geraldo to be a fine dancer for example, one that complements Marin’s knowledge of “cumbias and salsas and rancheras” (65). Yet, from the title of the vignette itself, we already confront a mystery of identity in who Geraldo “No Last Name” actually is – a very real reflection of immigrants living illegally in the United States who must purposely conceal themselves in order to avoid detection and deportation. I try and imagine diminishing someone’s identity to that of “Green pants and Saturday shirt…[t]hat’s all” and feel a unique heartbreak over the emptiness (or just a lack thereof) in detail that makes a person more than just a ‘body’ – it’s what makes them ‘individual’ (65). This emptiness of identity becomes all the more distressing when we consider with Cisneros at the end of the vignette that of Geraldo’s “home…in another country” and “the ones he left behind…wonder[ing], shrug[ging], remember[ing]…never heard from…again” (66).
The vignette also reminds me of the dense middle section in Chilean novelist and poet Roberto Bolaño’s literary magnum opus “2666” – a story which in part drew inspiration from the thousands of murders, specifically of women, in the violent Ciudad Juárez, a Mexican city just south of El Paso, Texas. In “Book 4: The Part About the Crimes”, Bolaño recounts hundreds of fictionalized deaths (although many were based in part on the circumstances surrounding actual murders) that ultimately share one common thread: that all we’re (the reader vis-à-vis the homicide detectives) left with, in the aftermath of death and disappearance (in which these women become merely a statistic in death), is the cold reality of never knowing what made these women ‘human’.
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David, I would like to commend you on always finding connections between current literary works to those that we have previously come across in class. I truly find it interesting and knowledgeable. In this case, I really enjoy the connection you make between “Geraldo No Last Name” and “Amphibian.” Just by mentioning Legaspi’s “Amphibian,” one could immediately come to the conclusion that Cisneros’ vignette talks about immigrants in the United States.
Hey Ebube – I appreciate your commendation. Thank you –
Yes, it helps to make a broader literary case for discussing themes (and more) in one particular work by comparing it to another – and of course, it makes a more compelling read when the comparison is with that which we have read in class – it assumes that everyone has read the works I’m referring to and thus, establishes the ability of others to grasp what I’m talking about.
I think the theme presented and explored in this particular vignette is relatively easy to gather – certainly as you suggest, “one” does “immediately come to the conclusion” that Geraldo embodies but one aspect of the American immigrant experience – however, to me, this doesn’t necessarily satisfy a fully adequate response; given too that many of our classmates indeed have their own immigration experiences only makes our readings more relevant on a personal level – and isn’t that but one goal for literature to achieve? I find that comparisons made between literary works we’ve studied this semester as it relates to the immigrant experience especially beneficial in giving non-immigrants, like myself, not only a fuller understanding of the context within work by authors like Cisneros (or my other comparative point with Roberto Bolano’s “2666” for example) but a fuller appreciation of the experiences from the students (like yourself) who closely identify to that of the immigration experience.
Additionally – final point – Professor Conway has made no effort in disguising the joy she gets from students engaging in comparative literary analysis – especially as it pertains to work we have read during the course of our semester. (Wink wink!)
David, your discussion of “Geraldo No Last Name” is incredibly sad, especially as you connect it to the thousands of people disappeared in Ciudad Juarez (I don’t know how you got the accent mark!) Strangely, as happens, the story of one person never quite known, disappeared and forgotten, is often more heartbreaking than the fact of thousands, unnamed, who share that fate. When we look at one story, the person is humanized, as Geraldo is in this vignette, and is transformed into something much more than a statistic. Thanks for a great, if sad, post.
I once again felt touched by Sandra Cisneros vignettes, my favorite one is “No, speak English.”
“I believe she doesn’t come out because she is afraid to speak English, and maybe this is so since she only knows eight words,” this line touches my heart because it reminds me of many people I have met. Particularly older immigrants who have been brought here by their family members or the ones who come by their own will to succeed. Tio Alberto was my mom’s uncle and I remember visiting his farm multiple times when I was a kid. The farm was filled with all the animals you could think of and all the fruits known to mankind. Years later I remember seeing his familiar face at a family party, I shouted Tio Alberto! I was so happy to see him but not so much his wife Pepita. She seemed to be happy to be in the states surrounded by family and people willing to engage in conversation. On the other hand, Tio Alberto looked sad like a refuge removed from his land. In his eyes I saw the palm trees moving swiftly to the sound of the wind, I saw the morning dew in his eyes. I walked up to him with two beers in my hand to cheer him up. I was too young to drink, but we drank, and we talked bout his farm. He told me funny and terrifying stories about his past, and we had a good time. I remember that look on Tio Alberto’s face and I still see it every day. I see immigrants young and old with the same reminiscing look, but I also see hope in their eyes.
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It was a pleasure to finish this story, I will likely read it again. Throughout the story we follow Esperanza’s upbringing and maturity. We start to identify how she changes as she hits puberty and follows the culture of the neighborhood she is brought up in. The theme of sexuality reoccurs several times in the second part of the story. I chose to write about “Sally, the girl with eyes like Egypt and nylons the color of smoke” As Esperanza starts to hit puberty and explores her sexual identity, she seems to look up to a girl that is very confident of he sexuality.
The boys in school gossip about Sally because of her beauty and the way she dresses. Esperanza want to feel that feeling of being looked at and thought as beautiful. Unfortunately, while Sally might be pretty and gossiped about at school, her controlling relationship with her father affects her deeply and perhaps is what makes her rebel. I find it so important for children to surround themselves with the right friends. It is so easy to fall into popularity traps and find yourself stuck in uncomfortable situation… which sadly Esperanza experiences.
Professor Conway, I would like to thank you for such a delightful and thoughtful class. I enjoyed every week and appreciate the time you put in to answering every student and giving constructive criticism that truly made me into a better writer. The class instructions and assignments were always very clear and I enjoyed being able to share my comments with others throughout the semester. Thank you for everything 🙂
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Hey David, I totally agree. The puberty stage can definitely be a challenging stage it terms of growing up and getting to know yourself. With that —getting to know yourself comes with flaws and insecurities. Also the people that you think are pretty and look happy on the outside can also be gloomy on the inside. The puberty stage is definitely a the hardest stage as teenager. I’m happy Esperanza experienced it and grew from it. Thank your for sharing.
Hello David,
Puberty for me was a pain and definitely challenging so I can 100% agree with you. Taking the time to actually get to know yourself is hard because when you try to do this you have to acknowledge your impurities that come along with it. The puberty stage of life is by far, one of the most challenging to deal with once you hit that age. But even though it’s difficult we all get it and learn from it and it is an experience that I really think everyone should appreciate.
Hello David,
Thank you for an inspiring post. I think that your choice for this week is remarkably interesting and your analysis is powerful. As you mentioned in your post, through this story we experienced Esperanza’s growth and maturity, and part of that was her entering the puberty stage. I agree with you saying people tend to fall into popularity traps, just like Esperanza did, but from my point of view, this story teaches us something even bigger than that. I think this story shows us that even the prettiest and popular people are hiding something we don’t know. It is teaching us not to judge others so quickly since every person has a personal story that affects his behavior and usually, what we see on the outside is just the cover people choose to reveal, just like Sally did.
This week, the vignette that touched me the most was” A Smart Cookie” written by Sandra Cisneros.
This vignette describes the struggle of Esperanza’s mother. It describes her thoughts and feelings, her dreams and her disappointments, and the most meaningful part- the lesson she wishes to teach her beloved daughter.
The vignette starts with the mother saying: “I could’ve been somebody, you know?” which I think is the most terrifying sentence an adult can say or feel.
Personally, one of my biggest fears is to feel that way when I am older, I think that living with a feeling that you are not important and that you never fulfill your dreams and desires is scary and sad. Throughout the story, she describes the lives she had before, and how meaningful it had felt, but now she does not feel that way, and that’s the point she decided to teach her daughter an especially important lesson “Shame is a bad thing, you know. It keeps you down.” I find this sentence to be immensely powerful and important, and I think that when I have kids, I will teach them the same lesson. She explains that she quit school because she was ashamed of herself and her clothes. I wish to teach my future kids, just like I am doing now with my sisters to always believe in themselves and be true to themselves no matter what others do or think about them.
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Shai, there’s a famous line from the poet John Greenleaf Whitter: “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.” This is the sentiment you explore here in your post with such passion. It is wonderful that you are not waiting to have your own children to impart this message, and are guiding your younger sisters now.
“Papa Wakes Up Tired in the Dark.” This vignette resonated with me entirely in two ways. I recently experienced a tragedy in my life that was similar to this one, and my uncle unfortunately passed away and it shock my whole family. I immediately rushed to the memory of happen and immersed in those emotions. I definitely felt the ending where the Cisneros said “I hold and hold and hold him.”
When I first seen my cousin the next day I embraced her and just cried and cried. We both started breaking down, its a memory that I will never forget. My uncles was so influential as a father figure win my life, it hurt me but I could empathize with her which is his daughter and my best friend and my family’s pain . I could only imagine the pain of losing my father. Another situation I think of is my maternal grandfather that was gunned due to gun violence when my mother was a young age. She has spoken of weight she carried after he father died. This vignette really resonated with me on so many different ways.
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Hey Summer, I totally get how it feels to lose a love one especially someone who also played a father figure in your life. Losing someone isn’t easy and it’s always good to have someone to confine in, I’m happy you had you’re cousin. I also emphasizes with the family. Thank your for sharing this piece and sharing with us you’re remorse.
Summer, thank you for sharing that very personal response to “Papa Who Wakes Up Tired in the Dark.” It is not just the death itself but also about the profound effect the death has on those who love the person. Ebube raised an interesting question in his remarks about this vignette, wondering how Esperanza felt about the death itself. Her vignette focuses more on her reaction to her father’s tears than to the death itself.
“The earl of Tennessee” Vignettes from the House on mango street made the strongest impression on me. The short story gives a description of a man name Earl. Earl is the next door neighbor that lived in Edna filthy basement. Earl is described as very private man who is rarely seen. He is only seen when he walk his dogs or go and comes from work. Earl is also a repairman that had boxes of moldy records, It’s rumored that he’s married and his wife life somewhere else. This story stood out to me more because I have experience the inquisitive feeling after moving into a new neighborhood. I also have seen this in plenty movies and shows. Before I came to the untied states I lived in Guyana located in South America. My neighbors was an motorcycle and Bicycle repairman. Under his house it was crowned, dark and filled with a bunch of old motorcycles and bikes. We never see him that much because he was always inside listening to his radio and repairing old bikes and motorcycle. His wife who he was married too had passed away and it was just him by himself. I related to Esperanza neighborhood because I think there’s always that one neighbor that is very private and you hardly have communication with because you have suspicions or is very inquisitive about. It’s good to be aware of your surroundings and also understanding of people space.
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Taheed, I know what you mean about every neighborhood having its mystery man. I find this vignette pretty funny because it seems that Earl, despite his solitude, isn’t really lonely based on the descriptions of the many women he has been seen with. Also, he has two happy dogs who bounce like a comma and an apostrophe.
This week I chose, “Elenita, Cards, Palm, Water” — page 62
Esperanza and her family moved from place to place until their house on Mango street. Although they now owned a home, it was nothing like Esperanza hoped and dreamed for. I believe this is why she sought out Elenita to see if there would be a home in her future. Esperanza seems to be perhaps a teenager or young adult.
This vignette reminded me of my childhood. As she described the tarot cards I vividly recall when my grandmother and I would play a game with those same cards. My parents, sister and grandmother all lived in the same household. She believed heavily in the “espiritu.” She had an altar of saints in her room. I remember Mother Mary in a bowl of water with tons of pennies in it, a glass of holy water and colorful beaded necklaces on the stand. This is a traditional hispanic culture. My grandmother’s friends would come and read your fortune, either with water, shells or cards after blowing tons of cigar smoke all around you. There were special made baths for just about anything you can think of. A bath to bring you money, a bath to wash away all the evil eyes, etc. Indian statues and elephants by the door for protection. Reading this story I could see the imagery of Elenita and Esperanza because it resembled some of my childhood memories.
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The story “Linoleum Roses” from this weeks reading of “The House On Mango Street” really stood out to me. It felt sad and lonely and full of false promise. I believe Esperanza is correct and that Sally chose to marry as a way to escape her father and an abusive household. Sadly, the man she married was also abusive and while he provided her with money and a place to live, she was never truly free. She went from learning and following the rules of her fathers home to learning and following the rules of her husbands.
Sally reminds me of a fragile bird moving from one cage to another. And it feels like even if one left the cage door open, she wouldn’t know how to leave, or even that she could. While she must be lonely and unhappy, it feels like that may be the way it has always been for Sally and it is hard to make changes when you haven’t seen another way. While she likes looking at the walls and finds comfort in the things they have, linoleum curls as it ages, toasters lose their shine and towels eventually grow holes and become rags. Without a major change, Sally will age and dull with the apartment. I wonder what stories she will tell her children. And whether her children will be able to break the cycle of abuse.
I have really enjoyed this class and the weekly discussion boards. With so many changes over the past months, it has lifted my spirits to read everyone’s thoughts each week. I loved the lectures, the reading guides, and the artwork that was so carefully chosen for each of our readings, as well as a wide variety of authors. Thank you so much for sharing and for reading over the past months.
Ashley
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Hello! After reading the vignette “Linoleum Roses” in “The House on Mango Street.”
This story kind of gave me weird vibes because at first I thought Sally was happy to get
Married a young age and move out with her partner. However, at the end of the first paragraph we find out when the author says “She says she is in love, but I think she did it to escape.” Escape what I thought? Domestic violence, parents fighting, not feeling loved by family? We also later find out her husband also isn’t an angel and still does nasty things such as “He won’t let her talk on the phone,” “He doesn’t like her friends,” and she is even afraid to leave the house without his permission. In my opinion that is not normal and this story is trying to explain to young woman that they don’t only have one option. Just because something is bad, doesn’t mean you transfer over to something which may seem “better” but at the end of the day, it’s just as bad as it was before if not worse!
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David, yes, in “Linoleum Roses,” we see Sally as she moves from one prison to another and, as you say, maybe an even worse prison. Esperanza is not surprised that this is how things work out for poor Sally.
Hello David Klebana! I liked what you wrote, it brings to mind the old saying “the grass is always greener on the other side.” i think a lot of people get into committed relationships to escape some aspect of their life, or just to gain a new life. What do you think she was trying to escape? You noted several. Far too many people get married way to young in my opinion, and it makes it very difficult to escape if things turn sour.
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The vignette “A House of my Own” really stood out to me in this week’s reading. It is very short and to the point, but i think this is what adds to the beauty of this delicate vignette for me. She summons up the idea of her own home and she mentions not having to shake a stick at anyone or pick up anyone’s trash while in her own home, she also barely describes this home. She is describing a refuge of peace and quiet, and her lack of description purely comes from the fact that this is her home, she doesn’t need to tell us the ins and outs of her home, it is for her and her alone. This short yet beautiful vignette reminded me of the williams carlos williams poem “This is just to say” it is simple, heartfelt and personal. It amazing how much passion can be put into so few words.
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James, you are so right that great emotion can be expressed in very few words—when they are the best chosen words!
The vignette that left the strongest impression on me this week would be “Born Bad”. This longer vignette a cohesive rambling of thoughts that starts off with one idea then eventually transforms into a whole new thought. However, this transition does not feel abrupt for it still relates and explores the lessons Esperanza learns as she begins understanding the world around her. The lesson in which she learns through this vignette is the idea of fate and all of its unpredictability and the occasional viciousness that comes along with it. I can’t help but to relate to the topic as it reminds me of times when I was young in which I began to question fate. Repeatedly asking myself why something would happen that would bring things together like a puzzle and the ironicness of it all. I believe through the novel, Cisneros wants readers to remember these moments as they are universal topics that relate to us all for we have all been in Esperanza’s shoes during our coming of age period.
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This week, the vignette that made the strongest impression on me is “The Three Sisters.” The central idea focuses on staying true to your roots and never forgetting where you come from. After what seems like the reading of Esperanza’s palm, one of the sisters said, “You will always be Esperanza. You will always be Mango Street. You can’t erase what you know. You can’t forget who you are.” Ensuring Esperanza that her wish to get far away from Mango Street would come true while also encouraging her to know that she cannot deny Mango Street and it should never be forgotten.
I enjoyed “The Three Sisters,” because I believe it is crucial always to remember where you came from. Whether you have good memories or bad memories, everything is a life lesson. Furthermore, it makes you who you are. Even if you are ashamed, that should only make you go harder in life and remind yourself to strive for something greater.
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I chose “Beautiful & Cruel” as the vignettes that I like to comment on this week. In this vignette, Esperanza mentions that since she is not as beautiful as Nancy and she knows that her chances of being
“rescued” by a man is low. She talks about the women in the movies who have “red red lips” and they are “beautiful and cruel” and they are the ones who have the power, but she doesn’t want to be like them.
So she looks for a way to be herself and to have control over her life, and she sees “being like a man” as an option to have what she desires without being like “those women.”
I think she believes (and I agree with her) that it is easier to be yourself and do what you desire if you are a man. In her logic, being a man is what will give people the flexibility to be their true selves. There is not as much expectation to be “perfect” if you are a man rather than when you are a woman. I believe she shows this by her example of what she will do if she had that power. “Not putting back the chair after dinner” can be a vivid way to talk about expectations from women. Because this is considered to be table manners and if a woman doesn’t do what she is “supposed” to do to follow those etiquettes it would be considered “not ladylike” but if a man does the same thing it will be easy to not notice or think of it as a sign of power or control.
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Afsaneh,
I love the way you wrote this response. I think her desires to be like a man (to have power) really shines through in this response. She does not want to be rescued by a man, because that would be giving him the power she truly desires. I loved your response!!
Again, there were SO many vignettes I wanted to address in this week’s discussion board contribution, including but not limited to “Geraldo No Last Name” and “The Monkey Garden,” however I’ve elected to discuss “Bums in the Attic.” This vignette is one that arguably had the most impact on me through the duration of the entire piece of literature. Personally, I grew up moving around, state to state, neighborhood to neighborhood, due to the nature of my dad’s job, and some of the places I’ve lived have left more to be desired to say the least. During my childhood (and, if I’m being honest, even into young adulthood) I found myself wishing for the same things as Esperanza. In this particular vignette, Esperanza fantasizes about having her own home on a hill someday. I remember, time and time again, how I just wished someone would take a chance on us, too. I remember the longing a felt for a miracle, someone to scoop us up and whisk us away to a big house, somewhere I wouldn’t be embarrassed to call “home.” I recall the crippling embarrassment I faced whenever a friend had to drop me off at home. I also recall the moment when I decided that I, too, would own a big house someday, one that I worked for myself, one I could be proud of. I unequivically identify with Esperanza’s sentiment of kindness in terms of allowing the “bums” inside her future home, becuase I had always wished someone would do the same for us. “Some days after dinner, guests and I will sit in front of a fire. Floorboards will squeak upstairs. The attic grumble. Rats? they’ll ask. Bums, I’ll say, and I’ll be happy.” These last lines brought me to tears, and I think that’s how you know it was a vignette meant for you.
Emily, talk about tears. Your post brings me close them.
The vignette I really liked from “The House on Mango Street” is “A Smart Cookie”. The story is about Esperanza’s mother and how she wishes she pursued more in her life. She wants the best for her daughter and doesn’t want Esperanza to be dependent on a man. Esperanza’s mother has many skills but isn’t self-sufficient and doesn’t know how to do things like taking the subway herself. I resonated with this story because Esperanza’s mother reminds me a lot of my own. My mom came to the US after she and my dad got married so the highest education she could complete was her bachelor’s degree. Because her family was very old-fashioned they didn’t think it was important to study any further because they wanted her to get married and be a housewife. Esperanza’s mother quit school because she was ashamed of her financial status and thought she could make it on her own, but she ended up on mango street. My mom also didn’t pursue her career goals because her parents convinced her she would be better off letting a more educated man with a better job providing for her. I didn’t learn more about my mom’s life before she met my dad until a few years ago. She has also always struggled to do the most basic things like travel on the subway or order her own food at a restaurant because she’s insecure about her accent and doesn’t think she’s capable of many things. I was surprised to learn she was studying nursing, tutoring children, and giving singing lessons before she got married. My dad encouraged her to finish her studies but she quit everything out of fear of failing and embarrassing herself in front of her soon to be in-laws for wasting so much time. She has no regrets but I wonder if she just put her ego aside and pushed through, maybe she may have been able to do something more with her life.
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Hi Zubaida,
I like how you connect Esperanza’s mother life and your mother life. It’s hard to do something in life when your parents don’t let you do it. My mother was forced to stop studying by her grandfather as you said “ old- fashioned” . He thought she should get married at a young age and not study. Sometimes my mom tells me “I wish I could get a chance like you to study and go to college, but will not let you get married if you don’t want to.” She’s encouraging me to do more things in life like studying more and more. I agree with you that “Esperanza’s mother and how she wishes she pursued more in her life” I think that she is trying to show us how important education is for everyone. She wants us to be educated, so we can be successful in our lives.
Edna’s Ruthie
The vignette that stands out for me this week in Sandra Cisneros’ novel “The House on Mango Street” is entitled Edna’s Ruthie. In reading this piece, I reflected on my experience when I first moved to the area I spent my middle school years. Ruthie’s character bears much resemble to my landlord’s daughter, Keisha. Like Ruthie, Keisha had an admirable skill, though not whistling, but rather singing. We would often tell her she had the voice of an angel and that she should explore ways to let it be heard, and be recognized. I believed then that had Keisha wanted to be a noted singer she could have been because she had a special voice. However, Keisha was very shy and lacked self-confidence. In fact, Keisha was always one to second-guess herself before making a decision.
The group of young girls my age who lived in the same building, and liked going on different outings would try to get Keisha involved. Sometimes she would willingly agree and participate but other times she appeared anxious and she would refuse. Again, like Edna, she would just giggle for no obvious reason. Many times, I wondered without sharing my thoughts aloud that Keisha had a problem. Many years after I learned that Keisha had a disability which went undiagnosed for many years. It took a stranger in the neighborhood rather than those around her to realize the problem eventually. My take away from both Edna and Keisha is that is important that the people in our lives should have an eye, and an ear for existing problems, and seek help that could help to rectify or adjust circumstances early.
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The vignette I chose to write about is Born Bad. In this story, Esperanza and her friends feel an immense amount of guilt when her Aunt Lupe dies after recently having made fun of her during a game. Esperanza does genuinely love her Aunt Lupe, in fact, she’s a frequent visitor. Despite the deteriorating state she’s in, Esperanza is fascinated at her past as a swimmer. She likes going over to tell her stories, read her books and her self written poems, much to Aunt Lupe’s delight. But Esperanza’s attitude towards her Aunt changes completely when she’s with her friends, as they mock and imitate her on the playground. This all causes Lupe’s death to weigh heavy on her chest.
This vignette resonated with me in particular because of the way it shows this very authentic portrayal of not only grief, but guilt as well. At one point, Esperanza is throughly convinced she’s going to hell for the things she said about her aunt, despite the fact that no one could’ve foreseen such a tragedy to occur. It’s a very childlike, but human perspective, a perspective that’s consistent with all of the vignettes in this book.
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Hello Caleb,
This vignette is really interesting because it is hard to understand how and why her Aunt Guadalupe dies. Guadalupe is blind and Esperanza used to go to spend some time with her. As in the vignette says they were playing imitating characters. Esperanza imitated to her Aunt Guadalupe and it was one reason for her death. Esperanza feels guilty and her mother condemned her to hell. Besides guilty Esperanza also realized that she doesn’t have anyone else to tell her writings and read poems.
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The story “The House on Mango Street ” by Sandra Cisnero the vignette I choose “ No speak English” and the theme is sadness and emotion. I could connect a lot from that story because after coming to America lots of people said lots of things to me that time I didn’t know what to say back. I still remember one time by mistakenly hit a woman leg and that woman said “ you stupid, you Idiot didn’t your parents teach you anything” I didn’t know what stupid or idiot means in my head I was thinking maybe she said “ you don’t have to say sorry” I didn’t say any just walk way I see many people staring at me like I’m really a stupid girl. I could feel Mamacita going through without knowing English “Somebody said because she’s too fat, somebody because of the three flights of stairs, but I believe she doesn’t come out because she is afraid to speak English” (pg-77). This quote shows that she has no confidence and it also shows that she is afraid to speak English because she thinks that if someone says something bad about her then they make fun of her. She also thinks that it will make people think she is stupid.
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This week, the vignette that left the strongest impression on me was the very short story “Four Skinny Trees.” This vignette centers around the themes of growing up and feeling left out–and yearning to fit in. Although brief, “Four Skinny Trees” managed to evoke emotions in me that I honestly haven’t felt for years. Growing up in New York, I am well familiar with the skinny trees growing through the sidewalk, planted by the city, that Esperanza describes. I, too, would empathize with those trees as a child, feeling out of place and not fully grown. However, as Esperanza realizes, “Their strength is secret”. Like the trees, Esperanza and I both take comfort in knowing that what we can see of a tree is merely a fraction of their true size–the vast majority of their body lies underground in their root system. And both she and I, relating to the trees, are then able to understand that we are not only as we seem, and like those four skinny trees, we too can reach for the sky no matter our circumstances. Although I am older now and no longer stuck in the awkward discomfort brought on by puberty, I still appreciate the skinny trees, and I often notice the bulges and cracks in the sidewalk where a tree’s roots have broken through, proving yet again that the secret strength of city trees (and therefore my strength too) will always persevere.
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Hi Kia, I loved reading this post. Growing up, I too can relate to your statement of being “stuck in the awkward discomfort brought on by puberty.” Over time my insecurities that I had no control over are now nothing to be ashamed about. I used to get teased for my height (5’8”) my classmates used to call me giraffe back or long back and it really hurt my feelings and made me feel as though something was physically flawed about me. I really loved how you took those trees and compared it to your perseverance and strength. Thank you. I needed this.
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In this week’s discussion the vignette I choose is “What Sally Said.” This vignette impacted me the most because it talks about abuse. Sally was hiding her abusive father’s scars with her positive attitude. “A girl that big, a girl who comes in with her pretty face all beaten and black can’t be falling off the stairs.” Sally was trying to protect her father’s reputation at the same time trying to give her father another chance. Parents do not have the right to abuse their children for making mistakes in their lives. Hispanic fathers can be very overprotective with their daughters because they believe women need to be scared and pure until married. Becoming pregnant before marriage is a “embarrassment.” The theme for this vignette is abuse should not be tolerated under no circumstance. Sally was hurt physically and mentally by the person she loved most.
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Hello Mariana,
This vignette was a sad one. Esperanza is talking about abuse and violence at home. The sad part is that Sally didn’t ask for help. Instead, she covers her Father saying that she fell the stairs. Parents don’t need to hit their children they just need to sit with their children and talk to them. Parents also have to allow their children to hang out with friends what some parents don’t. As Esperanza relates when the father catch Sally talking to a boy he hit very hard to get that she even didn’t go to school.
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The other half of the “The House on Mango Street” one of the many vignettes that caught my eye was “What Sally Said”. This short vignette makes the reader feel the emotional and mental aspects of Sally’s circumstances. Sally goes to the same school as Esperanza, she comes into the school with injuries that come from her father abusing her and the reason for it is said abuse is the result of her leaving the family for a man. What Sally’s sister did had brought shame to the family so that also ties in as a main reason for the abuse Sally has to put up with in her life. Instead of telling the truth about her father Sally lies and says it isn’t the father who is the result of her bruises, however, everyone knows she’s lying to them about the causes of her injuries. Esperanza then invites her over to stay with her own family, which she hopes will help her situation out and after Sally agrees she also partly moves in with Esperanza’s family.
I chose this vignette because I’ve had a situation like this happen to me and also because I connect with the feelings of sorrow and pain. I feel bad for Sally because I know what she’s going through (not entirely like her situation), my situation dealt with one instance of physical abuse and then after that never happened again so far. I felt a lot of emotion when reading this because again it reminded me of that instance in time when I went through abuse and the emotions she feeling I definitely felt countless of times due to that physical abuse, the verbal abuse, and of course the emotional abuse that I’ve had to feel throughout my life because of others.
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The vignette that resonated for me this week is “No Speak English” The central idea for this vignette is a family together in a new country. In this vignette, Esperanza relates to a family that lived across the street on the third floor. The husband works two jobs so, He leaves home very early and comes back late. To save money to bring his family where he is. When his wife and baby come. They stand all day in their apartment because they are new in this country and they don’t speak English. While they spend time in their apartment they used to sing songs. This vignette resonates for me because it relates what most of the immigrants do when they come to the United States. Most of the Immigrants work two jobs. When immigrants come here they stay the first days in the apartment because they don’t know English. The way we start speaking English is by memorizing some frases and using them all the time and when we don’t know how to say something or we don’t understand we just say no speak English. As the women Esperanza mention in this vignette.
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The vignette “Rafaela Who Drinks Coconut & Papaya Juice on Tuesday” (79) in the novel “The House on Mango Street” left the strongest impression on me. The vignette emphasizes themes of confinement and freedom as it relates to partnership and marriage. Rafaela is described as a beautiful young woman who’s husband locks her in their apartment when he goes out to play poker on Tuesdays, in fear that she may leave him for someone else due to her beauty. Confinement is exemplified as Esperanza associate Rafaela with the fairytale of Rapunzel saying that Rafaela “dreams her hair is like Rapunzel’s” insinuating that much like the fairytale, Rafaela is confined and wishes to escape one day. Rafaela yearns for freedom locked away in her house, Esperanza correlates Rafaela’s want for drinks like coconut and papaya juice to this want for freedom saying that Rafaela “wishes there were sweeter drinks, not bitter like an empty room, but sweet like the island, like dancehall down the street. Rafaela wants to be anywhere besides locked indoors as she feels trapped and even owned by her husband, wishing for “sweet drinks”. Esperanza says “And always someone is offering sweeter drinks, someone promising to keep them on a sliver string” maybe implying the inevitability, that even if Rafaela were to leave and find someone new, they’d still find ways to confine her. This vignette resonated with me because it adds to an ongoing archetype on Mango Street. There are other women on Mango much like Rafaela who are confined in their relationship and find temporary escape or solace elsewhere. Minerva who writes small poems and plays or Sally who leaves an abusive home to then settle in a new one finding escape in her material possessions both share that desire for freedom like Rafaela. It seems as though those who live on Mango Street, still wish to find a true home and true freedom from the sometimes oppressive environment just like the protagonist.
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The vignette that made the largest impression on me is “What Sally Said”. The theme for this vignette was domestic abuse. Sally’s father beat her to the point that she had black and blues all over her legs and had to lie about it when she went to school. This was something that I found a little difficult to read since this is a sensitive topic to me for personal reasons. I feel that domestic violence is, unfortunately, a common occurrence that happens to women, and it’s not right. I feel that by writing about this Cisneros is touching on the female experience that she has been writing about all through The House on Mango Street. I felt like this story was extreme because it highlights the dangerous part of being a woman, a mother, or a daughter. While other parts of the book highlight those experiences of being stifled and trapped, this vignette talks about it in a literal sense that makes it dangerous to be even a daughter. I find this to be a really heavy topic and honestly ironic because in lots of cases, fathers are supposed to be the first man in their daughter’s lives that protects her and keeps her safe. However, a father is hurting his daughter and teaching her that she doesn’t deserve to be protected but deserves to get hurt. Again, this ties into Cisneros’ bigger theme of women always having to suffer and settle.
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The vignette I decided to write about this week is “Four Skinny Trees”. It resonated with my because I too, feel as though I was put somewhere I don’t belong. Placed to grow in a place where I’m not meant to grow. But despite the fact that I’m not supposed to be, I am. The quote that I liked the most in this vignette was, “Four who grow despite concrete. Four who reach and do not forget to reach. Four whose only reason is to be and be”. Living in an environment where you aren’t supposed to thrive, yet you do, is a true test of resilience. Everyone is looking at you to fail and when you prove them wrong, that is an incredible feeling.
After reading the vignette “Bums in the Attic” by Sandra Cisneros, I felt like I can connect to this one a lot. To me, the central theme of this vignette is to dream big/set huge goals for yourself and when you make it, never forget where you come from. In this Vignette Cisneros explains how someday she would want to live life on the hills, like the people who her father worked for. She then explains how she knows how it feels to be homeless and would offer bums her attic, to help them out because she also knows how it is to have no help. Now, I don’t know if I would go as far as letting bums into my home, but I would love to help out my community the best way I can in the future. Were I come from there isn’t a lot of people who make it out. The ones who do often never tend to come back and give back to the community. I Understand where the author is coming from with trying to help the less fortunate out. I hope one day I can help and educate those around me to reach for me and to become something bigger than they could ever imagine.
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The vignette that stuck out to me in this reading of “The House on Mango Street” would be beautiful and cruel. In this part Esperanza is dealing with self image issues. Based on what she sees she believes less attractive women are at a disadvantage compared to attractive females. This cause her to think she ugly and think she would never get a man. She decides never to fight for a man and gain her own self power. A major theme in this vignette is the struggle to discovers ones identity. Esperanza is struggling in what and who she wants to be in life.
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“Elenita, Cards,Palm,Water”, was the vignette that made the strongest impression on me. This vignette is about Esperanza going to get a card reading done on herself by a witch woman and ultimately left feeling more confused than before she got there. Esperanaza also seemed really disappointed about the fact that she did not get clear answers to her issues and because the witch woman, Elenita did not do anything to alleviate her confusions. It left a strong impression on me because I have been in a similar situation where I met someone who does tarot card readings not really looking for answers but I ended up more confused after the card reading than before I had. For Esperanza’s case, she was actively seeking out answers for the feelings that she had. So for her to feel confused about not really receiving clear answers for her feelings.
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I chose the “Born Bad” vignette. I think Born Bad is about a pivotal time in Esperanza’s life and the effects it had on her from that day on and for the rest of her life. It shows how she dealt with losing her aunt, who was the “Joan Crawford” of the family. It is through her aunt that she realizes her path to escape can be through her writing, which her aut always encouraged her to do more of. This vignette stuck with me because I feel that everyone has a skill or gift that will “keep them free” To be creative is to be free. I especially relate to Esperanza, and how we both settled on the gift of writing. Writing is a gift I let go of and picked back up, and like her, I also have begun to dream the dreams of where my work will take me someday.
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