CC-by-SA-2.0
In Oedipus the King, the Chorus functions as the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes. The Odes, sung by the chorus, also exemplify one of Aristotle’s criteria for great tragic theatre: “language enhanced by varying beauties.” Select one passage (You do not have to discuss the entire ode) sung by the Chorus and write a 150-word post in which you analyze the meaning of the passage and give examples of some of the beautiful language employed. Include the line numbers for us.
Do not address a passage that has already been discussed by another student.
Please be sure to include your section number at the end of your response. There are 3 sections of students in our big discussion group!
Also, address comments to others by name so we can all follow along.
132 thoughts on “Week 6 Discussion”
(Chorus/Strophe: Lines 1014-1020)
Through the use of alliterative wordplay, the strophe in this passage examines the nature of one’s ‘tragic flaw’ and questions the distinction of mortality in contrast from the immortal will. Amounting to ‘man playing god’, the strophe lists “gains without justice,” “impiety,” and an “itch for untouchable things” as conditions to which Oedipus sets out in wrestling himself from his own tragic flaw (lines 1014-1016). In each of these conditions, Sophocles illustrates and builds the extent to which Oedipus’ struggle against fate is one of cosmic significance, lending to the idea of ‘being’ and ‘god’ as one and the same. Drawing from its ordinary meaning ‘to harvest’, Sophocles’ use of the word “reaps” in “reaps gains without justice” is symbolic of a particular type of earthly injustice, one that drains from a world fraught with plague and a country described as sick (line 1014). The phrase “will not hold from impiety,” after a careful analysis*, should be understood to mean “beyond that which is impious,” underscoring the attempt to which mortality seeks to challenge the immortal on its own ground (line 1015). On man’s “itch for untouchable things,” the strophe refers to man’s tragic desire to conquer mortality, a common thread arguably shared among great historical figures, not the least of which Oedipus as the ‘just’ ruler of Thebes (line 1016). In lines 1017-1020, the strophe weaves through alliteration to ask two fundamental questions in regard to the conquering of the immortal: 1) Is man capable of “immortal being”? 2) If so, would that not invalidate the nature of god? When earlier conditions from lines 1014-1016 are met to allow for man’s toppling of the immortal, the strophe, confronting its own mortal limitation, cannot quite conceive of the “shield” man will then have successfully adopted against the “shafts” of the gods (line 1018). But in doing so, so that the immortal will have emphatically embraced man as one and the same, the strophe questions their validity as gods asking, “why should I honor the Gods in the dance?” (line 1020). Sophocles’ rationalization of the power and awe of the immortal arouses a dramatic stir in the physical world his characters and chorus inhabit. All of this language encompasses a great deal of historical and philosophical content that I find incredibly and fantastically dense given the passage’s seven brief lines. It is here however that the strophe rests on an idea that I believe may be quite radical to some people and I welcome any comments, opinions, and/or challenges to it – that to become god is to invalidate god.
*In order to really get to what line 1015 means – “will not hold from impiety,” I diagramed out the positives and negatives one can adjust to figure out why perhaps another form of the phrase wasn’t used instead. I thought this particular line deserved some treatment – I think it’s easy to overlook given that one can simply read “impiety” from the line and know the chorus is referring to blasphemy. However, ‘to hold’ and ‘not hold from something’ I believe enhances the implication of the impiety, deepening its meaning.
– Section 0503
Hi David,
I really enjoyed reading through your opinion on line 1020. For humans of that era dying and end of life was such an imminent reality that Gods, had to be defined by their immortality. Obtaining the necessities of daily life was so hard and out of reach that those who could taste the sweetness of life a little longer than others sometimes would be considered as saints and gifted. Indeed the man who could even imagine immortality would challenge gods even when he is still in his mortal and illusional stare.
– Section 0503
Hello Afsaneh – I have to admit, I’m a little confused by your comments.
Is the view of life and death then really any different than it is now – isn’t death an “imminent reality” now, even if you don’t observe “gods”? What exactly is a “sweetness” of life that allows one to be considered “gifted,” let alone a “saint”? Is man’s conceptualizing of immortality the same as challenging it? Are the gods threatened? It’s interesting you use “illusional” stare – are you implying that man who’s able to “imagine immortality” must also be aware of its impossibility? Keep in mind I’m making a heavy emphasis on the nature of the “tragic flaw” and that by conquering it would imply a conquering of the immortal. It begins as a struggle in the self, through that flaw, before it challenges gods of the immortal.
Hi David,
To make my statement clear I am going to answer your questions here:
isn’t death an “imminent reality” now, even if you don’t observe “gods”? Death is always an imminent reality, it’s our perspective about death that changed through time. We live longer now so it’s obvious that we are not as worried about death as people in 406 a. C. We don’t give birth to ten children hoping that at least two of them live. This is the difference that I am talking about, and I believe it can be the root of the “Tragic Flaw” in Oedipus’ character.
What exactly is a “sweetness” of life that allows one to be considered “gifted” let alone a “saint”? In the age that the average life span of a man wouldn’t go over 45, Indeed long life would be considered a supernatural and beyond imagination gift from the gods, the best example would be Tiresias the blind prophet in Thebes who lived 600 years and is known mostly for his very long life.
Is man’s conceptualizing of immortality the same as challenging it? Yes, it is. The first step in accepting, denying, or challenging anything is conceptualizing and imagining it.
Are the gods threatened? Yes, The first and most important contrast between man and gods is the immortality of Gods.
It’s interesting you use “illusional” stare – are you implying that man who’s able to “imagine immortality” must also be aware of its impossibility?
Of course, Human was aware of the impossibility of immortality and that was the root cause of his imagination that created these myths and concepts around them.
Nice! Thank you for answering into all of that, i know it’s a lot!
David, I’m impressed and intrigued by how deeply you delve into the meaning of words and phrases here, and I think your analysis of specific quotes (e.g. ‘itch for untouchable things”) is very astute. What I’d like hear more about, however, is how this passage reflects the emotions and concerns of the populace.
Hi David,
This is not so much a response to the content of your post, but an accessibility request. I find your analyses compelling and informative, but I haven’t been able to read one of them all the way through because of the way you format them. I have ADHD and the wall of text is extremely difficult for me to focus on. I know it seems a bit selfish, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would consider reformatting your posts in the future to include paragraph breaks for improved readability. I’m sure all of us would benefit from being able to absorb the information you present as fully as possible. Thanks so much!
Hi Kia! – I hear you loud and clear! I try my best to be as concise with my ideas the best I can. Sometimes when the themes of our reading enter into some aspect of the unknown – such as immortality, let’s say, I’m immediately aware and confronted with the limitations of language.
In saying that, I really appreciate your post and in the future, will do a better job on formatting my posts in a way that will make it easier to take in! Also – if at any point, in regard to my posts, you wanna ask me something specific, I’m more than happy to get on here and have a little discussion,
Thanks again Kia.
Thanks so much for the consideration, David! I realize we tackled essentially the same passage from two different angles, which is nice to see.
Kia and David, thank you for this very civil exchange and your willingness to understand and candidly respond to each other.
The passage that I choose is “This is a terrible sight for men to see!
I never found a worse!
1490 Poor wretch, what madness came upon you!
What evil spirit leaped upon your life
to your ill-luck—a leap beyond man’s strength!
Indeed I pity you, but I cannot
look at you, though there’s much I want to ask
1495 and much to learn and much to see.
I shudder at the sight of you”. Page 20, lines 1490-1495. This is a supercharged passage with different emotions. For example “This is a terrible sight for men to see” in this part the chorus uses derogatory language, referring to the aberration committed. The chorus Expresses its pain, sadness, pity, and compassion in this sentence “Poor wretch, what madness came upon you! What evil spirit leaped upon your life to your ill-luck—a leap beyond man’s strength!”. The king Oedipus had an enviable life, admired and revered by his people. The chorus personifies the role of judge and mediator in the face of an event that left them perplexed. This passage is a mixture of emotions. The chorus shows sensitivity in the disgrace, but also shows contempt, recrimination, and curiosity about what happened. It is also a beautiful language that shows people ashamed after an abominable act committed by their king.
Section 0534
Raquel, I think your description of the passage you have chosen as “supercharged” is excellent. This is a highly emotional expression by the Chorus of both terror and pity, which are embodied in tragedy. I think this passage reflects how we still feel in modern times when someone who has achieved greatness has a fall. Because they have been held on such a high pedestal, the falls seems greater than when an average person has a similar dissolution. I think of Bill Cosby, for example,and other public figures who have brought about their own disgrace. In the case of Oedipus, however, there is a recognition that he was cursed by the gods and not entirely at fault for his tragic life.
Hey Raquel, I think the passage you chose is a perfect example of the chorus being a substantial character in the story. I like how you addressed the chorus and its role as a judge being personified. We can indeed identify time over time that the chorus comes in at crucial times to either aid Oedipus or guide his judgment. Although ashamed for his act, I do believe that luck played a huge roll in the outcome of Oedipus’s fate throughout the story. Thank you for your comment, I enjoyed reading it.
I agree with you Raquel. This part of the passage is intense with a lot of emotions. At this point, the citizens thought they had seen it all but to their surprise, a man has done the unthinkable….for he unknowingly murdered his father and married his mother. . Oedipus thought he was running away from his destiny but to his surprise, he was rather embracing it. The chorus is expressing its mixed feelings at this point. As you said its pain,sadness,pity and etc. Even thou they are in shock about how the news came in a bolt out of the blues, they are still concerned and want to know why and how this has happened to such a great man.
Hello Raquel,
This indeed is an emotional passage. The language used to convey the emotions were perfect. You can feel the disgust in these lines. It is no surprise Oedipus would go to such extreme measures and gauge his eyes after hearing something like this. Sophocles wrote this tragedy with all the elements Aristotle spoke of in our week’s assignment. It is an unforgettable story.
Hi Raquel,
This passage that you decide to choose and analyze shows just how important the chorus of the play generally is. I can definitely agree with you on the prominent emotion that is in this section of that play as well. During this part of the play Oedipus accidentally murders his father and made the “wise” decision to marry his mother. You can definitely feel a type of nasty emotion being emitted through this particular part that makes you react in a shocked or taken aback way.
Antistrophe – Strophe (995-1000)
“May destiny ever find me pious in word and deed (Line 995).” Here Aristotle illustrates the ultimate wishes of a believer in his time. The writer glorifies the essence of a culture where a citizen is valued by the amount of belief and abidance he has toward the word of God. He follows with “prescribed by the laws that live on high, laws begotten in the clear air of heaven, whose only father is Olympus.” In order for a man to be considered pious and enlightened, he/she must devout himself to certain rules and laws but not those written by a man who is mortal and unwise. The eternal laws must come from celestial and divine places as Aristotle states” live on high.” The question is why the citizens were looking for a heavenly path to live and reach salvation? Was there another Choice beside the “laws begotten in the clear air of heaven?” The writer portraits the other option clearly in the next lines: “Insolence55 breeds the tyrant, insolence if it is glutted with a “surfeit, unseasonable, unprofitable.” (Line 1000) The opposite of Olympus is human and its insolence and arrogance. The very moment that man feels the sense of superiority, the evil and viciousness will replace the pious in his hart. It is Amazing how the writer could picture such a moralistic portrait of a citizen in one single song.
– Section 0503
Afsaneh, yes, this is an important passage about the need for human beings to respect moral laws. There is so much truth the passage, and again I begin to look at current events. “Insolence breeds the tyrant.” When a human being puts himself above the moral code, a tyrant is born. The tyrant feels that he is above the law and places himself on a god-like level. Why do you believe the people are concerned with these ideas? Oh, by the way, the author of the play is Sophocles.
Dear Professor Conway
Thank you for your comment, I believe the people are concerned with the idea of tyrant kings and leaders due to their freedom-seeking nature. Tyrant and arrogant characters are the complete opposite of heavenly laws that are designed in a fashion that will drive humans toward salvation.
I am sorry for my typo on the name of the author, I meant to say Sophocles and most probably got distracted at the time of writing.
Best,
CHORUS: You that live in my
ancestral Thebes, behold this Oedipus, —
Him who knew the famous riddles and was a man most
masterful;
1725 not a citizen who did not look with envy on his
lot—
see him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him!
Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy
till
he has passed the final limit of his life secure from
pain.
Page 23 Lines 1725
I decided to choose the ending of the passage because the chorus delivers a message to all the citizens of Thebes about the loss of Oedipus. “count no man happy till he dies, free of pain at last”. The chorus wants everyone to remember that Oedipus was once someone who was noble and proud but now he is just someone who is a disappointment. Oedipus doesn’t die but that doesn’t mean it’s a happy ending either. The chorus tells us that Oedipus will learn from his blindness but leaves us wondering what will happen to him next. The chorus reminds us that even the greatest men can be brought down by destiny “see him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him!”
Section 0503
Angela, you’ve chosen such a moving passage at the end of the play. I think it also speaks to the reality no human being will leave this world without suffering. I think it also reminds us that those who seem to “have it all” have their own afflictions.
hi angela, how are you so sure that it isn’t a happy ending? in the chorus it states, ” count no mortal happy till he passes the final limit of his life secure from pain”. to my understanding, Oedipus lived his life and went through his situations which had different effect and emotions on him causing pain and suffering. you say it doesn’t have a happy ending, but to me based off in the chorus, it says there is a happy ending… when you pass your final limit of secure from pain.
section 0534
Hi Angela! I really like your analysis. I have a very similar analysis as I focused on lines 1000-1005, where they spoke about Oedipus being at such a high point, but allowing himself to be his own demise. Like you said, Oedipus at the end of the play was not the same man he had walked in being. He was a man of honor and nobility who had respect from everyone around him. But by the end of the play, his pride is destroyed, and the admiration from his peers is ripped away. If someone like Oedipus can reach this low point, what about any of us?
Hello Angela,
I almost chose this passage as well. It was a great way to sum up this tragedy. Oedipus, like many other kings, succumbed to their inevitable fate. The disgust and disappointment the chorus displays for their king is not necessarily warranted, in my opinion. Oedipus did these things in ignorance and deserved a little empathy. However, I don’t think empathy would of made for a good tragedy. “See him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him!” This was a descriptive line and added to the tragic element.
Hello angela,
To me this was more of a happy ending based on the merits of the last line and my own interpretation of life. Throughout the play it seemed like Oedipus wasn’t happy in his lifetime because events occurred in his life that caused emotional problems and affected him in a rather negative way (of course). This play does have a happy ending because when Oedipus does he is freed and is released from the chains of human emotion which made him hope for death and miserable.
In Oedipus the King the Chorus sung in lines 1400 and 1450
“Antistrophe
Time who sees all has found you out
against your will; judges your marriages accursed
begetter and begot at one in it.
O child of Laius,
would I had never seen you.
I weep for you and cry
A dirge of lamentation
To speak directly, I drew my breath
from you at the first and so now I lull
my mouth to sleep with your name”.
I feel as this message speaks to how the Chorus vocalize their emotions on Oedipus. At the end, I understood that “I drew my breathe from you at first” means he didn’t want to speak name. They didn’t want anything to do with Oedipus and but now Antistrophe lulled to his name. “So now I lull my mouth to sleep with your name” the chorus continues. I enjoy how the ode begins, “time who sees all has found you out against your will”. Its speaks so subtly on the theme of time. Time waits for no one and, it makes time a person that will find you regardless. I love the way it symbolizes it.
Summer, this is a quite foreboding passage, I think. It is also a direct expression of both pity and fear, felt not the by the audience in this instance but by the chorus. It also suggests that there is no escape from fate. With time, it will always catch up with a person no matter how hard he may try to flee it.
Section 0534
Hello Summer, i believe this is a very interesting passage to pick. You can hear a tone of resentment and pity towards Oedipus from the chorus. As we all know, this play is a tragedy and the lines “judges your marriages accursed begetter and begot at one in it” tell us why. This line refers to Jocasta as the “begetter” of Oedipus, which means his mother and the “begot” which means his wife. This references symbolize a form of pity towards Oedipus from the people.
Passage 1385-1398:
Hence, he was called my king and hence
he was honored the highest of all honors;
and hence he ruled
in the great city of Thebes.
But now whose most tale is miserable?
Who is there lives with a savager fate?
Whose troubles so reverse his life as his?
O Oedipus, the famous prince
for whom a great have
the same both as a father and son
sufficed for generation,
how, O how, have the furrows plowed
by your father endured to bear you, poor wretch,
and hold their peace so long?
Through this passage, Sopochles conveyed the rise and fall of the King of Thebes before his people. With great detail the chorus sings of his honor and misery. The beauty in this passage is not so much the language but how it was expressed. “But now whose most tale is miserable? Who there lives with a savager fate? Whose troubles so reverse his life as his?” These questions posed handed the audience the power of emotion. The gravity of his evil deeds were not only pondered but felt. There lies the beauty. The Oedipus complex, one of Sigmund Freud’s philosphies, proves how unforgettable this tragedy is.
Section 0504
Arlene, this a powerful passage you have chosen and interpreted so well. It alludes to the proud history of an admired king and how his reversal of fate has brought him lower than any regular citizen could ever fall. There is a sense of horror and even disgust mixed with empathetic pity.
CHORUS: I cannot say your remedy was good; 1546 you would be better dead than blind and living (page 21). I choose this passage about the chorus because They usually react to events as they happen, generally in a predictable manner. As we read in this story, we might think what the chorus believes will eventually happen in Thebes. The king impacted positively, also negatively however in this quote it’s stated clearly the chorus is not happy of their king’s action as they prefer him dead than alive. Even Though despite the horrible fate of Oedipus the king, he was a great leader because he possessed unique power, qualities. A leader who trusted and listened to the citizens throughout his ruling. As he can physically see, he refused to see. The impact that the king had to its citizens was not appreciated by the chorus, because his blindness make him do bad things that he could avoid by observing and
listening to the advice of the people around him. The chorus played an important role throughout the reading by giving us a concrete and honest opinion in how the play was going and what was happening.
0503
Souadou, thanks for the comments. The quote you chose is strong and reflective of emotions and thoughts of the Chorus. However, it is a little out of context because it is so short. You write that the people would “prefer” Oedipus to be dead rather than blind and alive. Is it possible that they are actually saying that HE might prefer to be dead than alive in his misery? Would it be an easier choice for Oedipus to kill himself as Jocasta does, or is there a nobility in his acceptance of his guilt?
Chorus; Strophe (Lines 1243-1250)
“If I am a prophet and wise of heart
you shall not fail, Cithaeron,
1245 by the limitless sky, you shall not!—
to know at tomorrow’s full moon
that Oedipus honors you,
as native to him and mother and nurse at once;
and that you are honored in dancing by us, as finding
favor in sight of our king.
1250 Apollo, to whom we cry, find these things pleasing!
In this passage of the play, the people shower praises unto Jocasta- the queen. They call her “Cithaeron” which refers to a large mountain found in Central Greece. This piece of text describes how much the people value and respect Jocasta. In the scene right before, the people were in distress for Jocasta leaving. I would like to say they were also surprised by her silence because she is always the voice of reasoning and they always want to hear her words of wisdom. The grief and distress by Jocasta’s silence and exit leads to them praising her and saying, “you shall not fail.” The people bring up a good point by saying Jocasta is a native, mother, nurse (meaning wife) to Oedipus all at the same time in Line 1248. This shows her worth to not only the land but their King.
Section 0504.
Hi Ebube,
I think this is one of the most beautiful pieces in the passage as it shows how much the citizens love their queen. They worship her and treat her as if she is a mother to all. I think Jocasta really carries heavy burden on her shoulders because as soon as she realizes that Oedipus is her son, she tries really hard to sway him from the truth because she doesn’t want to hurt him. It shows how much Jocasta cares about others more than herself, that is probably why the citizens love their queen so much.
Section 0503
Ebube, I think that in this passage the Chorus is praising the actual mountain of Cithaeron. They have just learned that Oedipus was not the natural child of Polybus and they are imagining that this child found in the mountains, who served as his mother and nurse, might be a child of the gods or nymphs. This is confusing because I see that in the Gutenberg copy of the play, which we are using there is a misattribution of lines. Lines 1099 through 1108 have the wrong speakers identified. I hadn’t noticed this before.
Hey Professor, I also find this confusing and I believe the misattribution of line is what led to my understanding of that passage of the text.
Ebube, I understand and agree. That’s why I went back to the text to check.
Hello Ebube,
The language used in this passage was so eloquent. It made you want to go to Cithaeron and experience it yourself. You can imagine it to be a secure and nurturing place. Sophocles conveyed this emotion well. The honor given in such passages were so exquisitely detailed it made the tragic passages feel full of condemnation and disgrace. This tragedy is a great reference for future tragic play writers. It contains all the components Aristotle identified as a great tragedy.
The Chorus in Oedipus The King is so incredibly important when you stop to think about it. Without the chorus the characters in this story would act without hesitation, and on their own volition. This is displayed very well in lines 715-731 following Creon and Oedipus’ contentious meeting regarding the words of Teiresias the old blind prophet. Oedipus blames Creon of plotting against him and hastily and irrationally decides death is a fitting punishment. It is at this time the Chorus chimes in with their thoughts on the matter, stating “Be gracious, be merciful, we beg of you.” (715-716) and that “he has been no silly child in the past. He is strong in his oath now. Spare him.” (718-720) these outbursts from the chorus gives Oedipus a moment to think clearly and think rationally on the matter ultimately saving Creon’s life. Oedipus argues he must die, the chorus then makes a very smart statement, claiming such a an action would be horrible and that “but my spirit is broken by my unhappiness for my wasting country; and this would but add troubles amongst ourselves to the other troubles” (729-731) They are saying in essence that this action would not help the current crisis in Thebes, but would in fact make it fester doubly therefore making Oedipus a part of what he has claimed to end in Thebes. The Chorus acts almost as a consciousness for the characters, and without them we would have a much different story. It adds a certain zest of real life that is much appreciated and makes the play deeper and more complex.
Course – 0534
Hey James! I’m trying to come to grip with your characterization of the Chorus as the “consciousness for the characters” who without them, the characters would “act without hesitation, and on their own volition.” It’s hard to tell whether or not you also acknowledge the Chorus as a character itself – they are specified as “a chorus of old men of Thebes.” This character – the Chorus, goes through its own development as a character – they support Oedipus, they question Oedipus, they can’t quite adapt themselves to his behavior as he becomes more disillusioned; they represent people that Oedipus as a leader represents. In the political dynamic between Oedipus as a ruler and the people as his subjects, the Chorus is meant to have its own role in order to highlight Oedipus’ own inner-tyrant. Indeed at line 609, the Chorus says “I have no eyes to see what princes do” – thus, I think that the Chorus is outside of other characters’ states of mind or consciousness. Additionally, the Chorus never succeeds in preventing Oedipus from “conquering” his own tragic flaw – in fact, the Chorus can’t even comprehend the nature of Oedipus’ tragic flaw – it is too earthly for them to understand. Deep and complex points of the play (e.g. free will) aren’t centered in the Chorus, they’re centered in Oedipus and in the decisions that he makes – which as a ruler, he’s fully entitled to making completely on his own, totally independent from the Chorus or any character for that matter. For everything to be considered “of Oedipus’ own doing,” we as readers and the audience, already know beforehand the Chorus doesn’t stop Oedipus from doing just that.
David, I agree that James’ discussion here is excellent. And I think that much suspense is created as we identify with the Chorus and realize with growing dread that we cannot change this king from himself or alter the course of his fate.
James, you’ve described the role of the chorus so well here. I think viewers/readers of the play are intentionally drawn to identify with the Chorus. Like the Chorus, we are alarmed at some of the king’s reactions. We want to tell him to calm down and think before he speaks. We have a sense of the danger that is possible when a leader is irrational and impulsive. I always feel as if the Chorus were whispering (in the original play, they are actually singing) in much the same way that the townspeople in “A Rose for Emily” whisper, expressing their fears and wishes.
The passage that I chose is “195 Our sorrows defy number;
all the ship’s timbers are rotten;
taking of thought is no spear for the driving away of the plague
There are no growing children in this famous land;
there are no women bearing the pangs of childbirth.
200 You may see them one with another, like birds swift on the wing,
quicker than fire unmastered,
speeding away to the coast of the Western God.” I personally liked this passage a lot because I gives me a flashback of a series I watched where they’re really sad because they lost their family and didn’t even know where to find them. it brings me a sad vibe at the beginning because they thought that thinking was not the way to get away from the plague, they kind of wasn’t really having faith at all. Also because it says that there was no kids growing and no woman was feeling the pain of giving birth. however at the same time t gave a really beautiful feeling because I interpreted that they were looking for good and I can related to that a hundred percent, I am the type of person that believes a lot in god. Which means that just like them when I feel sad or scared I look up to god, I also look up to god when I am happy but that’s not the case right now in this part of the passage.it says how they all were kind of running to god like birds flying. I have the feeling that at the end of the day that was the only light they would have that is why the were looking for god. that was their faith when the boat wasn’t in their best position in the ocean. Sec 0503
Jeidy, yes, this is a beautiful and awful passage. For me, this beautiful language used to describe such ugly horror is very emotionally affecting. It describes the cessation of life through childbirth and the swift rate at which people are dying, being borne away “to the coast of the Western God.” The Chorus, as you note, is pleading with the gods at this terrible time, praising their past deed and begging for new help. And yes, ancient people as well as modern-day people turn to their gods or God in desperate times. This play also shows the unchanging nature of human beings.
471 – 475 “We look at this man’s words and yours, my
king, and we find both have spoken them in anger.
We need no angry words but only thought
how we may best hit the God’s meaning for us”
This passage by the chorus represents the climax of the encounter between Oedipus and Creon. Oedipus has returned from the blind prophet who has revealed to him that he is in fact the one responsible for the killing of the previous king. When he questions his brother-in-law Creon regarding his involvement, they both begin to argue. Oedipus believes that Creon, with the aid of the blind prophet, had plotted and framed him. We, as the readers, and with the help of the character of the chorus, come to understand that the death had in fact been his doing, however he is not yet aware of this matter. The chorus enabled us as the readers to gain a new perspective on the story and the role both Creon and Oedipus play. The chorus, in this case, act as a sensible ‘third party’ that is trying to mediate a conflict between two important characters in the play. By doing so, allows us to understand the importance of both characters and their decisions. I think that the chorus plays a very important role in the play. The chorus acts as a voice to enrich the context of the storyline as well as a voice to questions Oedipus’ decisions and acts as a voice of reason. We sometimes notice the chorus having their own opinion and giving their input into what is just and unjust. As such the chorus plays a strong voice of sensibility and responsibility.
– 0504
Hello David Bar-Aharon
I think the same when you said the Chorus represents the climax of the encounter between Oedipus and Creon. We as a reader with get more informed and have more information on how the story is going by considering the Chorus perspectives and point of view. It is true that the Chorus plays an important role in the play since they give their opinions in the plays , that helps the reader to understand better.
0503
Hi David,
I agree with how you said the chorus plays as a mediator between Creon and Oedipus in the particular part of the story. The chorus definitely has its own opinion as well like how you said they give their input on what is just and unjust. They help balance out the rising emotions between the two characters and help us see the interaction between the two from a different point of view. The role of a chorus like King Oedipus carries responsibility, much like how a king serves his people and vice versa
In line 759-762 we see the Chorus play reason into Oedipus. The Chorus helps Oedipus climb down the mountain of rage and see that Creon id only doing hos duty and has always been faithful to the crown.
“CHORUS: Be gracious, be merciful, we beg you. OEDIPUS: In what would you have me yield? CHORUS: He has been no silly child in the past. he is strong in his oath now. Spare him.”
Oedipus knows this is true and spares Creon. Later in the story Creon ends up helping Oedipus with his last-minute arrangement before his final departure. Aristotle and the Chorus understand the powerful gift of mercy. Mercy can be very clear sometimes, and sometimes not. Thinking about mercy it gives the reader much to ponder. When reading I was expecting quite a few deaths and executions. In this story mercy goes around quite a bit. It lets the reader understand there are always peaks and valleys in life, and you reap what you sow you reap what you sow.
Section 0503
Kevin, I appreciate your comments about mercy. I find it interesting, and also the mark of a noble king, that in the ed Oedipus does not show much mercy to himself. How much it would have been to hang himself as Jocasta does. Instead, he takes the punishment he has decreed for the murderer of Laius and resigns himself to a life of pain and exile. Even the Chorus at some point wonders if Oedipus would be better off dead.
Hi Kevin, I do agree with the way that Chorus uses the word “be gracious, be merciful” to express Oedipus’s conscience that emanates from the heart. Besides that, as you said, on the contrary, if his conscience is buried, it will cause many casualties and this will lead to embarrassing tragedies. Others will stop believing in him because of this burying conscience. He is a really good character. From the beginning, he had wealth and didn’t bury his conscience and he was kind to others. I believe that good people will have a causal cycle of good intentions and rewards.
Section 0503
Hi Kevin, throughout the play in my opinion mercy was expose at the end of the play. King Oedipus had no mercy for Teiresias, Creon, and Jacasta. He was so full of self esteem and refuse to believe He was the one who killed King Laius. As the play goes on Oedipus has confirmed his mistake and couldn’t bare with it. Creon shows mercy towards Oedipus and he knows the Gods would not show mercy for his “ill”
Hello Kevin, I, too, agree with your analysis of the passage. Oedipus was up on his high horse, ready to banish or kill Creon without putting any extra thoughts behind it. The chorus begging for him to be gracious and merciful succeeded with him showing leniency. You’re right; the concept of mercy is essential and displayed throughout the play. Whether it be Teiresias having mercy on Oedipus or the entire country of Thebes having mercy on Oedipus!
(Chorus Pg. 23 Lines 1721- 1732)
The chorus is given the last line of this play to finalize what the people as a whole have to say or think. “see him now and see the breakers of misfortune swallow him” (Lines 1726-1728) Here the chorus tells us to take a good look at him and see how horrible his downfall was. Him being a King had it all but ended up with nothing, not even his own physical eyesight. “Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy till he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain.: (Lines 1729-1732) With his final goodbyes to Creon, the readers might think that he’s saying goodbye because he’s about to die but in reality he’s left alone to wonder up until the day he dies. “Look upon” is simply “look forward” to his final breath and is finally liberated from the pain he was just put through. I think this is the best way to end it because finally, Oedipus is seen as a tragic hero and he’s the one who went through the tragedy.
Section 0504
Nathaly, yes, those final lines are heartbreaking. Even if one believes that Oedipus’s pride and impulsive nature have led to his downfall, it is impossible not to feel sorry for him. There is an old expression something like “The mightier they are, the harder they fall,” and this is certainly the case for this one proud and esteemed king.
Hello Nathaly Ponce, I enjoyed your writing. I agree that the chorus having the last line was the perfect way to wrap up the story. We need the opinion of the chorus in order to know they finally look at Oedipus as a tragic hero. We can also see they recognize the sacrifice of his eyes, and that he is righteous in his action and they admire him as a hero because of it.
Course – 0534
Stanzas 1723-1728. Page 23
Chorus “You that live in my
ancestral Thebes, behold this Oedipus, —
Him who knew the famous riddles and was a man most
masterful;
1725 not a citizen who did not look with envy on his
lot—
see him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him!
Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy
till
he has passed the final limit of his life secure from
pain.”
The chorus’ narrative provides the constant flow of the play as they seamlessly transition from scene to scene and provide explanation within the narrative where they are necessary as opposed to breaking the fourth wall. I have decided to use the ending stanzas from the chorus of the play as it gives the audience a sense of closure. Within this closing piece, Sophocles make it important for the audience to realize how Oedipus is not viewed as being the antagonist by the chorus as he might by those reading. The wording that he uses to support this view is seen in how he writes, “not a citizen who did not look with envy on his lot” in which the chorus is still showing their love for Oedipus and continued pride for their former reigning. This all demonstrates the chorus’ unconditional devotion to him. Overall, Sophocles usage of the chorus to help with the narrative was an addition that provided the readers with an easier way to follow the story and understand the common thoughts of the characters within Thebes.
Section 0503
Richard, yes, these final lines are extremely poignant, and as you write, the Chorus is wracked with sorrow for the fall of their king. I think many readers identify with the feelings and thoughts of the Chorus and that they also share grief and pity at the end.
Hi Richcard, I totally agree with your point of view of the King Oedipus. Oedipus was seen with love by the chorus. In fact I would say they approach Oedipus has a king heart warming King. He meant no real harm for Thebes. He was really there to help save it rather then to conquer. King Oedipus was full of guilt at the end of the play, the chorus helped create another point of view of him.
Richard,
I thought your way of explaining the role of the chorus was very well spoken. I think their main purpose can be lost in translation for lack of a better phrase. It was very important that the audience know that Oedipus was not the “bad guy” or how you put it in more literary terms, the antagonist. This is still his story and it will be told with grace. I also think devotion was a very good term used to explain the relationship between Oedipus and the Chorus. Good response!
In Oedipus the King the Chorus sung, in the line 580-592, it said “but amongst men there is no distinct judgment, between the prophet and me—which of us is right. One man may pass another in wisdom but I would never agree with those that find fault with the king till I should see the word proved right beyond doubt. For once in visible form the Sphinx came on him and all of us saw his wisdom and in that test he saved the city. So he will not be condemned by my mind”. The author uses the word “wisdom” that praises a person’s wisdom and IQ. There is no denying that this is a compliment worth learning. Also the word was included in the story language enhanced by varying beauties. Besides that, he uses his wisdom to overcome the problem which is save the city. That is a good example to show that “wisdom” can help ourselves and other people in real life.
Section 0503
Mei Yan, this is a good passage that shows the feelings of the Chorus. I’m not sure what you mean about the “language enhanced by varying beauties here, and I’d like to understand better how you personally interpret the significance of these words by the Chorus.
Hi Mei Yan, thank you for your interesting comment! I agree that the chorus is saying wisdom is of great importance, and can definitely help people and their communities. However, I feel like the chorus was focusing less on the importance of wisdom in these lines, and instead were commenting on the personal strengths of the king. They were saying that, although Teiresias may be quantitatively far wiser than Oedipus, they are unsure about whether to believe him outright, because their king has proved his worth in front of foes as great (and as wise) as the Sphinx and come out on top. I feel like they are, in essence, saying they don’t want to judge a book by its cover. Since they are placing their trust in Oedipus, who at this point is openly denying Teiresias’s words, they believe wisdom is not the only measure of greatness or ability.
Section 0503
“Oedipus, you are my pattern of this,
Oedipus, you and your fate!
Luckless Oedipus, whom of all men
I envy not at all” (1375).
The chorus was speaking about how the signs of Oedipus’ success ultimately were signs of his weakness and failure. How if what had happened to Oedipus had happened to another, they would not be envious at all. They speak about how it was a pattern of his, to not want to see the truth. He went so far to gouge his own eyes out to be able to not see the truth about what had happened and what he had done. He is miserable knowing the truth, exile seemed like his only option. He was luckless, like the chorus said. Even when he wanted to be put into exile, he could not. The gods wanted him alive even though death seemed like a better option for Oedipus the King.
Claire, thanks for the comments. There is some wording in this passage (and I’ve looked at several translations) is still mysterious to me. I’m not sure I agree with the idea that Chorus is unsympathetic with Oedipus at this point, or that the word “pattern” refers to Oedipus’s behavior. I think it means “example” in this context. The Chorus is well aware that the gods are in charge, and their comments that they do not envy Oedipus reflect a kind of terror at the knowledge that misfortune can be the fate of anyone. Also, question the act of Oedipus’s self-mutilation in symbolic terms. Does this seem a terribly cruel but apt punishment?
Hello Claire. As these are some of the final lines of the play, it is important for the chorus to provide a sense of closure to the audience within their wording to create a feeling of how all of Thebes feel and see how that compares to the feeling of the audience. I agree that Oedipus’ downfall is dominant `within the lines of the chorus, however I believe one can feel a sense of sympathy that the chorus has towards this downfall rather than viewing his downfall as a sign of weakness or failure as you have stated. I believe they are telling how despite the downfall, he was still a powerful king who fought for justice.
May the Sun God,47 kings of Gods, forbid!
May I die
772 without God’s blessing, without friends’ help, if I
had any such thought. But my spirit is broken by my unhappiness for
my wasting country and this would but add troubles
775 amongst ourselves to the other troubles. (pg11 Line3)
This shows that Chorus talking to his gods that there is no point to survive when you don’t have companies and no blessing from his creator. His too depressed that he couldn’t do anything for Thebes expect for all the conflicts around the Thebes. Without any favor, it’s really hard for him to live happily.
Section: 0534
Forida, I’m not clear on your meaning here. Isn’t this passage by the Chorus in response to something Oedipus has said? What did the king say, and how does the Chorus explain its response? Also, please make sure your personal comments meet the length requirements.
“Unhappy in your mind and your misfortune, would I had never known you!” Line 1531 In the play, the chorus in this section created such immense tension. The chorus demonstrates the readers that Oedipus the King is in a lowlife within all his riches. The riches and respect he has gladly earned in the beginning of his journey of being King as vanished. “Unhappy in your mind”, Oedipus has found out he had killed his own father. He blinded his self to not see the truth but within his own thoughts he is trapped and locked. The mind is a human trait that can be manipulated according to your thoughts. Oedipus is now a fallen king with no hopes left in god. Further on in the passage Oedipus knows his wrongs and he know the Gods would not accept him for his errors. “Then I would have not have come to kill my father and marry my mother infamously. Now I am godless and child of impurity, begetter in the same seed that created my wretched self. If there is any ill worse than ill, than is that the lot of Oedipus.” Lines 1539- 1546.
Section 0504
Hi Mariana,
I agree with you Oedipus blind himself not to see the truth because he is blinded by his own pride. He doesn’t realize that he has been deceived and it’s time for him to face the consequences of his actions. The first thing that comes to mind when you think of a tragic hero is the one who kills his father, Laius. This is what makes a tragic hero such an important character in the play. Oedipus was born into a noble family and had many great accomplishments. He was the son of king Laius and queen Jocasta. Oedipus learns his lessons from mistakes.
The passage that struck me the most in this part of the play appears from lines 1009 to 1020. This Strophe comes at the end of a passage the Chorus sings after Jocasta reveals the circumstances of Laius’s death to Oedipus. The king, with the dawning realization that Teiresias may have been telling him the truth, still struggles to rationalize everything away and calls for the sole survivor of the attack to appear before him in the hopes that the man will be unfamiliar. Oedipus is desperate for proof he has escaped his fate.
Oedipus’s desire to outwit the gods is what the Chorus draws upon in their song, and this Strophe reveals their theological concerns about the potential consequences of such an action. If a human becomes stronger than their fate, do the gods no longer have any power at all? Is a powerless deity not redundant and useless? And do humans then, in their hypothetical overpowering of fate and the gods, have no use for morals or values? After all, what are people’s motivations to be good without fear of divine retribution?
The Chorus opens this Strophe with a long line contemplating human morality outside of religion. “If a man walks with haughtiness
of hand or word”, they say, “and gives no heed to Justice and the shrines of Gods despises … “, and here they interrupt themselves, crying out, “may an evil doom smite him for his ill-starred pride of heart! “, finally concluding, “if he reaps gains without justice and will not hold from impiety and his fingers itch for untouchable things”. Although this line is long and somewhat circuitous, it is clear they are describing the breakdown in good nature that occurs when someone attempts to stray from the will of the gods — someone like, say, Oedipus, the king who is lashing out at others in an attempt to fight his celestial fate. They condemn this behavior, wishing “an evil doom” upon the person so full of hubris as to deny the will of the gods, yet again hinting at Oedipus’s futile situation. This line, however, only describes the moral failings of someone who might attempt to fight fate and the gods. The rest of the Strophe is where their musings come to light.
The next line the chorus sings is where they begin to ponder: “When such things are done, what man shall contrive to shield his soul from the shafts of the God?”. When a person fights their fate and denies the gods their power, becoming cruel and losing their piety, why would they then feel the need to shy away from the gods deliberately? They would no longer have a predestined path and, through such freedom, would no longer need to rely on — or hide from — the gods. Essentially, they will have stripped the gods from their power by refusing to recognize them.
Therefore, as the chorus comes to realize in the final line of the Strophe, “When such deeds are held in honor, why should I honor the Gods in the dance?”. If a human can take their fate into their own hands, why bother with the gods at all? The exchange of power goes both ways. Humans worship the gods because they believe in their power, but by engaging in worship practices, they are the ones who give the gods that power at all. Breaking the cycle by denying the power of the gods means rendering worship functionless. For many spiritual or religious people in the contemporary world, such a thing is unimaginable. In the context of the ancient, deeply ritualistic society this play was written in, one can only begin to comprehend how much introspection Sophocles’s philosophy held. He was digging deep into his own preconceived notions of the world, and that of everyone around him.
Beyond this analysis, I found some of the word choices in this passage very compelling and poetic. However, I recognize that there are many translations of this play, especially considering how old and what a classic it is. Because of that, I don’t know how much of it is the translator’s personal preference, how much of it is inspired by other translations, and how much of it is a direct translation of the original. As such, I am not totally confident in speaking on it, and so although I find the language in this section beautiful, I chose instead to elaborate on the content of the words as opposed to the words themselves.
Section 0504
Hey Kia – in considering your comment above to my post, I really hope you find the means to read my post in particular because we essentially wrote on the same passage. The point you make on “breaking” what amounts to a cycle of power between believers and deities is a clever one for you to incorporate into your analysis.
Hi David, glad to hear you find my take on our shared passage compelling! I think it’s a shame that the theological aspect of Oedipus Rex sometimes gets forgotten.
Kia, this an excellent consideration of both philosophical ideas about self-determination and the importance of belief in the gods both of which run through this play. I have to admit that when Donald Trump was diagnosed with coronavirus, the hubris and defiance of the gods by Oedipus came to mind. A disregard of natural forces strikes me as being somewhat similar. Sorry—I can’t seem to stop making comparisons to the play and our current plague-ridden moment.
” count no mortal happy till he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain”- chorus ( last page, line 27).
this line spoke to me in a way of clarity. a lot of people may look at death in very sad, ” no coming back from”, most importantly… the end of your life. but who’s to say that once we physically leave this world, that’s the end. how is it possible, only in religion is there an after life? regardless religion or not, the universe is so big, not even specialist can discover everything in it. so to put trust into someone else’s mind and words about what they say after life and they haven’t even experienced it themselves seems kind of crazy to me. supposedly life after life, is where we find peace at. being alive, living, we go through situations. weather these situations are big or small, we’ve all been hurt before, and experienced pain. the saying ” they’re no longer suffering” for a deceased loved one just doesn’t come from anywhere. if there is such a thing as an ” afterlife”, there’s no real telling weather it would be better than living on earth, but its a talk that has been going on since the beginning of time. when the time comes for us to leave this world, we are walking away from all the pain and suffering we had to endure while living out our time here on earth.
section 0534
Hello Zaria,
I love that you selected this line to analyze… I think it’s really beautiful, too. Not only is the language employed in this line beautiful in itself, but the subject matter is, as well. It addresses such an abstract, yet controversial subject in a very matter-of-fact way. It implies that the human experience intrinsically demands relief from the trials and tribulations of life through– and exclusively through– death. The idea of death itself is beautiful in all its uncertainty and inevitability. In a way, it brings us all together and makes us contemplate all the divine forces present in the Universe.
Section: 0503
“May the Sun God, king of Gods, forbid! May I die without God’s blessing, without friends’ help, if I had any such thought. But my spirit is broken by my unhappiness for my wasting country; and this would add troubles amongst ourselves to the other troubles.” (772-775)
Moments before this passage, the chorus just overheard a petty argument between Oedipus and Creon. Oedipus suspects Creon is plotting against him. He thinks he has the right to counterplot quickly by banishing or killing Creon. The chorus does not agree. They want Oedipus to spare Creon because he has been loyal, and there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. I interpret the passage above to be somewhat of a begging request by the chorus. They call upon the Sun God and the king of Gods to help change Oedipus’s decision. I also feel they get personal when saying, “May I die without God’s blessing, without friends’ help” because their country is already riddled with plague, so more misery and sadness would be added to their troubles by harming Creon. Sticking together is vital. Luckily enough, Oedipus grants their request!
Section 0534
Hello Faith,
yes. Chorus and the country has been thru a lot. They are ready to turn the page on the plague and all the misfortune. Due to the misfortunes I think the tone of the Chorus becomes frustrated, and sympathetic.
This reminds me of the mindset of most Americans right now. We cant wait for the election to be over. We are all ready to turn the page and look toward a new future. There is a lot of confusion and mistrust of our leaders. May the Sun God help us too.
section: 0503
Kevin ha ha! We should all pray to the Sun God!
Chorus ( Lines 1325 – 1732 )
You that live in my
ancestral Thebes, behold this Oedipus, —
Him who knew the famous riddles and was a man most
masterful;
1725 not a citizen who did not look with envy on his
lot—
see him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him!
Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy
till
he has passed the final limit of his life secure from
pain.
I choose this passage because the way Chorus describes is very interesting. He describes how the gods are punishing Oedipus for his sins. Chorus messages the Thebes’ citizens about Oedipus the king who left the Thebes city because of his sins, but he doesn’t want to be punished by the gods. He wants to live a good life and be free from the curse of being a murderer. The way Oedipus blind himself after knowing the truth, Chorus thinks he will learn something from it. Oedipus didn’t die at the end of the passage he left the city with his two daughters. He was so blinded by his own pride that he could not see the consequences of what was happening in Thebes. Chorus shows us that it is better to have your own destiny than to be trapped in a prison of fate. Oedipus’ blindness led him to believe that he could be saved. I think this passage shows us how Oedipus was a tragic hero at the beginning and at the end he has been deceived “ he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain”. This quote reminds us of the reader’s first impression of Oedipus because we are able to see how he is a tragic hero. Oedipus is also an example of how people can be blinded by their own pride. When Oedipus was young he had no idea what lies ahead for him, and so he did not even realize that the future would bring him great misery.
Section: 0503
sorry Lines 1325- 1332
“This is a terrible sight for men to see!
I never found a worse!
1490 Poor wretch, what madness came upon you! What evil spirit leaped upon your life
to your ill-luck—a leap beyond man’s strength! Indeed I pity you, but I cannot
look at you, though there’s much I want to ask 1495 and much to learn and much to see.
I shudder at the sight of you.”
I chose this passage because it of how it shows how bad Oedipus feels. When it says “In deed I pity you” that made me feel really bad for the King because it is almost the same as someone saying they are not mad at you, but disappointed. The last line also really hit me because when it says “I shudder at the sight of you.” That also makes someone feel really bad. I think this part of the story is about teaching the king Oedipus about his mistakes. The power of the words used in this passage are used perfectly and really make the reader (me) understand how Oedipus feels. Its almost if as the chorus is his father explaining to him why he was in the wrong and why he should feel that way
-0534
“What is the sweet spoken word of God from the shrine of
Pytho rich in gold that has come to glorious Thebes?” (181-182)
In this passage the language is very high poetical form of speech used by the author to stylishly express the curiosity of the chorus waiting for news from almighty powers. “Sweet spoken word of God” means that they are expecting good news from a God who takes good care of his people when they are in need of his help. “From the shrine of Pytho rich in gold” is used to signify the place from where sacred orders are revealed to pious men. “That has come to glorious Thebes” is used by the chorus to glorify the state of Thebes and to show their allegiance to prosperity of their country.
Section 0534
The passages that I choose is
375- Teiresias : you blame my temper but you do not see your own that lives within you; it is me you chide.
381- Oedipus: who would not feel this temper rise at the words like these with which you shame our city.
Oedipus’ internal conflict he had faced within himself transpired in an external conflict he had gotten himself into with Teiresias, he told Teiresias you are blind in the mind and ears as well as in your eyes. (430)Which fell into an Ad hominem with creon. Oedipus was very contradictory in his behavior, which externally damaged him and his relationship with Teiresias. Teiresias: your are a poor wretch to taunt me with the very insults which everyone soon will heap upon yourself. (430) Teiresias was always skeptical about oedipus behavior or maybe emotion so it was questioned and wasn’t resolved to any good.
Section – 0503
Lines 195-202:
Our sorrows defy number;
all the ship’s timbers are rotten;
taking of thought is no spear for the driving away of the plague
There are no growing children in this famous land;
there are no women bearing the pangs of childbirth.
You may see them one with another, like birds swift on the wing,
quicker than fire unmastered,
speeding away to the coast of the Western God.
Between a series of metaphors such as comparing the people to rotten timbers of a ship and their problems to a “fire unmastered”, the chorus depicts the tragedies that take place within the City of Thebes. In saying that their “sorrows defy number”, they mean that their problems are not something that can be quantified. One thing that came to mind is the number of deaths from COVID-19 breaking 1 million recently. From a scientific standpoint, it’s easy to look at death in the form of numbers. But for the people who are directly affected from the loss of family and friends, their pains and grief are impossible to measure. The word play used in line 201 are also quite easy to miss. Their losses are described as “quicker than fire unmastered”, which anyone who is familiar with the characteristics of fire knows that it can spread rapidly, if not handled properly.
-Section 0504
“Sir, I have said before and I say again—
be sure that I would have been proved a madman
bankrupt in sane council, if I
should put you away, you who steered the country I love safely
when she was crazed with troubles. God grant that now, too, you
may prove a fortunate guide for us” (Lines 797-802).
There are many literary devices employed in this passage that collectively contribute to the beautification of the language in general. A brief analysis of the text can lead us to believe that the Chorus, in response to Oedipus’ refusal to give up his pursuit of the truth, implies that it would be a great misfortune to condemn Oedipus after all he did for the country in its time of need, chaos, and scarcity. The Chorus indicates at the end of the passage that they, ultimately, are trusting Oedipus’ guidance despite their reservations about what may be revealed in the process. The most significant evidence of beautiful language in this passage can be found in Lines 800 and 801, “…you who steered the country I love safely when she was crazed with troubles.” Here, the Chorus personifies the country by using “she” pronouns when referring to it. Rather than simply stating, “you who saved our country,” this technique elevates the text. Additionally, using metaphorical language such as, “I would have been proved a madman, bankrupt in sane council” (798 & 799) creates beauty in itself.
Section: 0503
One of the lines from the Chorus that struck me the most was the between Lines 1000 and 1020, where they speak about the behaviors that Oedipus would eventually exhibit that would sadly lead him to the realization of who the killer of Lauis was the entire time. One line in particular really stuck with me:
“Insolence breeds the tyrant, insolence, if it is glutted with a surfeit, unprofitable, climbs to the roof-top and plunges sheer down to the ruin that must be, (1005) and there its feet are no service”
This line really interests me considering the journey that Oedipus has gone through during the story. He started off so full of optimism and life, so eager to help his citizens to thrive. When he was instructed to find his father’s murderer, he only had the best interests of the kingdom and his citizens in mind. But soon enough, his mission to find the killer would be driven by pride and fury. All of the effort spent, all of the people he threatened to execute so swiftly without any second thought, but soon enough, as people had told him from the very beginning, the real murderer was right in front of him the entire time. Oedipus was at the peak of his life. He was the king of Thebes, beloved by his people. He used his power to push through this search for the murderer, and to stop anyone who got in his way or whom he speculated was the murderer. But he was raised up so high, to the rooftop, just for him to plunge face first into reality.
Section 0504
(1389- 1408)
In this passage, the chorus cries for Oedipus and his fate. Oedipus figured out the horrible truth the truth after being blinded by his arrogance to believe it. The chorus mourns for this terrible doom of their king. They ask these questions to the audience trying to elicit a similar reaction from them about this outcome. The chorus has always shown great respect for Oedipus even when when he tried to wrongfully convict Creon of scheming against him. They begged and pleaded him to spare his life even though it was clear he was making an impulsive decision. Now when the tables had turned they felt their king’s sorrow and the irony in his life. I believe that is why the Chorus asks these questions, to highlight the irony in this. “Time who sees all has found you out against your will”, in this line they describe how he had to eventually face this truth.
Section 0504
Chorus 1729-1732: “Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy till
he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain.”
These lines of the Greek tragedy Oedipus the king really stood out to me because of the correlation to life behind its meaning. What I mean by this is that we can all be happy and joyous today, but you will never and can not know just what bad things may happen to you the next day, so in turn you can’t know the length of your life until you have actually lived through all of it. The people who have not suffered are the only ones who can truly be happy. Another way to interpret this is that no one can be happy until they are released from their passions. Oedipus basically thought he was on top of the world and had everything going for him, like his wife Jocasta, children, being the king of Thebes, but then the truth revealed itself and all that happiness he thought he had disappeared. So he spent the rest of his life praying for death which is what freed him from the unhappiness that life gave him.
Section:0503
Hey Zakiyah,
I agree with what you wrote. Oedipus was blind to the truth for a very long time and once he found out the truth of all the things that mad him happy that happiness was gone. Its true what you said we can be happy one day and the next something unfortunate can happen and turn our whole life upside down like Oedipus. We don’t know how long we have on this earth we have good and bad days but we can never truly measure the happiness in our life until we pass the final limit of life.
Zakiyah,
This is a great interpretation of that line. It really summarizes Oedipus’ story as a whole. He thought he had it all and was perfectly secure in his situation but everything changed so quickly and he lost it all. These last lines symbolized the bittersweet ending to this story. Oedipus could not avoid his fate ultimately. I also found your point about how no one can be happy until they lose what they love very interesting.
Zakiyah,
I really resonate with what you said about you can be living your greatest life today and something treacherous can happen tomorrow. I think that is also very relatable to the world we are living in now. No one could have predicted our tomorrow back in March. I think this was a good response and I really enjoyed the quote you used from the play. 🙂
“But now whose tale is more miserable? Who is there lives with a savager fate? Whose troubles so reverse his life as his? O Oedipus, the famous prince for whom a great have the same both as a father and son sufficed for generation, how, O how, have the furrows plowed by your father endured to bear you, poor wretch, and hold their peace so long?” [Oedipus the King 1395]. As stated by the Chorus in line 1395, Oedipus was born into a very difficult situation. His life was destined to be a difficult one since the proclamation of his downfall provided by the oracles. “he foretold other and desperate horrors to befall me, that I was fated to lie with my mother, and show to daylight an accursed breed which men would not endure, and I was doomed 925 to be murdered of the father that begot me.” [925].
Section 0534
I’ll talk as best I can about this topic. I don’t understand the Odes that well, or have any talent to decipher them.
The Chorus chimes in after Oedipus learns his truth in passage 1370. “Luckless Oedipus, whom of all men I envy not at all”. I think the word luckless is chosen well. Oedipus tried to escape his fate and do the right thing, but met it anyway. Even still he went to find the truth of the murder to clear himself of wrongdoing, but still was found guilty. No matter how far he runs he is met with the same fate. Maybe we all have an inescapable future.
Then passage 1400 says, “Time who sees all has found you out against your will..”. This is good to reflect on. Time has many faces, and one may be that truth wills out at some point. You can’t escape time.
Sec. 0504
Patrick, please don’t underestimate your ability to understand and interpret the odes. You’ve done a good job here. One of the most important goals of this class is to constantly improve your critical thinking and interpretive skills.Remember that there is no incorrect interpretation of a work of literature as long as you can support your ideas with examples from the text.
Lines 1390 through to 1440
“But now whose tale is more miserable
Who is there lives with a savager fate
Whose troubles so revenge his life as his?
O Oedipus O
How O How
Have the furrows ploued by your father endured to bear you
Poor wretch and hold their peace so long”
I believe this is where the Chorus thus the citizens of Thebes laments about the tragic doom their King and their city is in…i.e… Upon hearing that their King whom they believed would relieve them of their misery is the cause of it. The King Oedipus curses himself at this point because of his tragic fate. The chorus is now overwhelmed by how an eminent person can be found in such doom. Now, the chorus is concerned about who is more miserable, the King or his people. From lines 1311 through to 1440, the chorus compares the situation to what we locally say in an African proverb, a father and son “eating from the same pot”. thus having the same woman as a wife. O how Oedipus set his heart to change his destiny but I guess he was at exactly where he is supposed to be, thus his fate continually catches up with him. I read the story in an up to date language and I must say that this version in ancient English is just beautiful. These lines (1390 -1440) are woven in the passage expressing a sense of pity and dismay. Oedipus the King or Oedipus Rex or Oedipus Tyrannos is powered by plots with fiddly dialogue, character contrasts and poetic musical use verbal expression.
SECTION 0504
Mercy,
This is a great analysis, I also picked almost the same passage. The chorus empathizes with their king who now suffers more than the people of his city who once came to him asking to be saved. There is a very powerful tone and emotive language here. I am very intrigued by your explanation of the metaphor in this passage about Oedipus and his father sharing the same woman. I agree with you on these points!
The passage I chose is “Sir, we too fear these things. But until you see
this man face to face and hear his story, hope.” (line 970-971) Here we see the king Oedipus struggle with finding out more information and the truth about who really killed the king before him, Laius. Jocasta was telling Oedipus the place where Laius was killed and who he was with when it happened. I just so happened the servant who escaped alive came home and found Oedipus king and Laius dead he begged the queen to send him off into the fields to be her shepherd. Oedipus is full of fear and is scared of what the servant might say and if it is true that Oedipus indeed killed Laius. In this passage the chorus is telling the king they are fearful that he might have killed Laius but they remain to have hope and encourage the king to have hope too. Hope that he didn’t kill Laius, who we find out later is his real father.
section:0534
Hi Michaela,
I like this analysis. Hope was a beautiful word that they can share with the king. because king Oedipus was waiting for one more clue that would find him guilty or not. But he discovered that he was guilty and that he already did what he was doomed.
section 0504
Miguel, please be sure your comments to others meet the length requirements.
Oedipus, you are my pattern of this,
Oedipus, you and your fate!
Luckless Oedipus, whom of all men
I envy not at all” (1375).
I believe the chorus was talking about how Oedipus was successful, yet this was also his failure. The fact that he harmed his eyes in order to not see the truth, shows that he will go through true extent to not see the truth or the consequence of his actions. Sadly, to Oedipus the truth was too much to handle, death seems as it was paradise to him. Unfortunately, the gods wouldn’t let him die. He’s left to forever be in the loophole of knowing the truth, which is torture to him.
Section 0503
Hi Thahina,
good ode choice. King Oedipus was very successful until the truth was discovered and everything change. Definitely he harmed his eyes to avoid seeing the truth. He preferred being died rather than life.
section 0504
Thalina, please be sure your comments meet length requirements.
Hello Thahina, Isn’t it crazy the lengths people with go to just to be able to ignore it because they can’t come to peace with the truth. Nine times out of ten, from personal experience, choosing to ignore something instead of coming face to face with the issue can lead to you feeling maybe a little better but in the end if you have a conscious, it will always be in the back of your head. Doing something like that isn’t mentally healthy as well. Oedipus proves this because he rather die than live.
SECTION
0534
Hi Thahina, Its very sad that it had to take King Oedipus to harm himself from seeing the truth and to deal with the truth. His pride caused him to fall low. But I do believe in what goes around comes around. He did well for the citizens of Thebes but he also killed his own parents.
1243-1251
If I am a prophet and wise of heart
you shall not fail, Cithaeron,
by the limitless sky, you shall not!—
to know at tomorrow’s full moon
that Oedipus honors you,
as native to him and mother and nurse at once;
and that you are honored in dancing by us, as finding
favor in sight of our king.
Apollo, to whom we cry, find these things
pleasing!
The reason why I liked this passage was because of the words used in it are to beautifully describe a positive tone towards Oedipus saying he would find the truth about his birth even if his wife pleas with him to leave it be and ignore it. This gives it a feeling of triumphant blessing and cheer especially since it mentions the ancient Greek god of the mountain Cithaeron and Apollo the God of the sun. In truth it makes me enjoy almost every single part of this passage but it was the last part “Apollo, to whom we cry, find these things pleasing!” because it really seals off on what the citizens are thinking after the whole scene meaning they are still wishing well and hoping the gods watch over him as Oedipus try’s to uncover the truth he so desperately wants to find despite the pleas from his wife truly giving this passage a very good view as to how the citizens look at there ruler and how the author paints a very good picture of the situation for the audience.
Section 0503
Hello Mercy Botwey, good that you liked my post. It is indeed a very loaded and emotional passage. That mixture of emotions that the chorus reflects is the essence of the plot. The chorus is the one who celebrates and suffers the events around the life of the king. Thank you.
The ode I chose was 1009-1013 because the words are so harshly critical. This ode has the chorus singing in two parts: Strophe and AntiStrophe. After doing some research, I learned that the strophe and antistrophe are parts that call to one another. The strophe sings something and the antistrophe responds, so they’re in conversation. They’re also supposed to represent the thoughts about Oedipus from the people in society. In these lines, the strophe is criticizing Oedipus’ semi-disbelief or doubt of the prophecy. In line 1013 it says, “smite him for hiss ill-starred pride of heart!” which shows how harsh the criticism is of him by society. Oedipus with his disbelief and doubt is considered “ill-starred” and is deserving of the failures that are coming to him. I think the failures that are in his future have to do with whether or not the Shephard will confirm if the prophecy is about him. Alternatively, needing the Shepard at all could be what this line is referring to as well instead of the shepherd’s confirmation since needing the Shepard is showing that the Gods’ prophecy on its own isn’t deserving of full belief. The word “smite” is what makes these lines so aggressive because that word tells us that Oedipus deserves to be stricken dead for his “pride of heart” which comes from him doubting what the gods have planned for him.
Section 0503
”Why has the queen gone, Oedipus, in while grief rushing from us? I am afraid that trouble will break from this silence” 1229-1231.
In the play ¨Oedipus the King¨, we see the dynamic between the chorus and the main characters of the play intimately with one another. The chorus represents the people of Thebes and their reaction to everything going on between the characters. Tired of his constant worry, Jocasta storms off from Oedipus after failing to reassure him about his predetermined fate, and the chorus responds with grave concern saying ” Why has the queen gone, Oedipus, in wild grief rushing from us? I am afraid that trouble will break from this silence”(1229-1231). In this excerpt, the chorus much like a narrator expresses worry for what’s to come and sets the tone for the tragedy that slowly unravels afterward. Oedipus is a king, whether he is silent or rowdy, it affects the people of his kingdom; the chorus is symbolic to the Theban public and their reaction to what’s going on in the kingdom. They often share empathy towards those in the kingdom but that support adds a tone of fear and suspense to the entire play.
Syndoll Clarke
Section: 0504.
Hey Chad, good research I like your input, this play is very interesting. The chorus in ¨Oedipus the King¨ is like the ¨We¨ in the story ” A Rose for Emily¨ the townspeople had a lot to say in her life still no one could predict or prophesy what will be the end.
Syndoll, please make sure your comments to others meet the length requirements. This is an interesting idea that you could have developed further in your post.
sorry Professor Conway I fell asleep.
”Why has the queen gone, Oedipus, in while grief rushing from us? I am afraid that trouble will break from this silence” 1229-1231.
In the play ¨Oedipus the King¨, we see the dynamic between the chorus and the main characters of the play intimately with one another. The chorus represents the people of Thebes and their reaction to everything going on between the characters. Tired of his constant worry, Jocasta storms off from Oedipus after failing to reassure him about his predetermined fate, and the chorus responds with grave concern saying ” Why has the queen gone, Oedipus, in wild grief rushing from us? I am afraid that trouble will break from this silence”(1229-1231). In this excerpt, the chorus much like a narrator expresses worry for what’s to come and sets the tone for the tragedy that slowly unravels afterward. Oedipus is a king, whether he is silent or rowdy, it affects the people of his kingdom; the chorus is symbolic to the Theban public and their reaction to what’s going on in the kingdom. They often share empathy towards those in the kingdom but that support adds a tone of fear and suspense to the entire play.
Syndoll Clarke
Section: 0504.
“I, too, could have wished it had been so.” (1538)
When king Oedipus is lamenting that he was saved from death and he would prefer to die instead of life. The chorus sang the given line. In this line, we can see that they feel and share that pain and that other density would be given to the city of Thebes if the king would die. if destiny is given to anybody we can do nothing to escape from that. In this case, King Oedipus was abandoned in a mount to escape his destiny and suffering but, he was saved for an old man. In the future, he lived his doomed as was predicted.
I think that the whole line is a beautiful language employed when they are saying that they understand and share his suffering. I think that all humans feel the same pain when we see another person suffering.
section 0504
1490 Poor wretch, what madness came upon you!
What evil spirit leaped upon your life
to your ill-luck—a leap beyond man’s strength!
Indeed I pity you, but I cannot
look at you, though there’s much I want to ask
1495 and much to learn and much to see.
I shudder at the sight of you”
At this point they have realized that Oedipus is to blame for the killing of his parents. They are rightfully in disgust and horror of the discovery, as it did not at all add up with the character of Oedipus that he had painted for himself in the beginning of the play. At this point, the mother had committed suicide out of shame, and I think the shuddering is because of the reaction to such a horrible crime. Personally, I too would be very badly shaken if in a situation like this. I think having the Chorus at this moment really characterizes them as the voice of the kingdom, and it really shows the emotion that his people were dealing with.
Hello Gezelle,
I like this passage too. It has hints of the phrase, “how the mighty have fallen”. For Oedipus to have had such a horrible beginning foretold, yet risen so high “beyond man’s strength” in that of a King. We can see then why the Chorus would pity him. A bit of irony too in that they shudder at the sight of him, yet he loses his sight.
,
Antistrophe
In the unnumbered death
of its people the city dies;
205 those children that are born lie dead on the naked
earth
unpitied, spreading contagion of death; and gray-haired
mothers and wives
everywhere stand at the altar’s edge, suppliant, moaning;
the hymn to the healing God15 rings out but with it the
wailing voices are blended.
From these our sufferings grant us, O golden Daughter of
Zeus,16
210 glad-faced deliverance
I chose this part of the passage because this is where king Oedipus will begin the search of the murderer of king Laius to free the Thebes from the plague. King Oedipus sent Creon to find a way to free the Thebes from the plague and the only way to free them is by finding the murderer of King Laius which is Jocasta husband before she married King Oedipus this chorus shows how King Oedipus was agreat leader and he did whatever it took to help his people.
section 0534
Tamaris, isn’t this ode a vivid description of the suffering brought about by the plague rather than about Oedipus’s decision to send Creon to the oracle?
Oedipus, you are my pattern of this,
Oedipus, you and your fate!
Luckless Oedipus, whom of all men
I envy not at all” (1375).
Oedipus could not face the consequences of living with his actions and acing the hard truth so he had damaged his sight. instead of him dying the gods had left hi to suffer and deal with the consequences.
section 0503
Sanaya, please review “Information about Discussion Boards” in COURSE INFORMATION for guidelines for length requirements. This is much too short.
The lines that stood out to me were lines 1243-1250. The line says, “If I am a prophet and wise of heart you shall not fail, Cithaeron,1245 by the limitless sky, you shall not!—to know at tomorrow’s full moon that Oedipus honors you, as native to him and mother and nurse at once; and that you are honored in dancing by us, as finding favor in sight of our king. 1250 Apollo, to whom we cry, find these things pleasing!”. I chose theses lines because to me it speaks of loyalty and trust. I say this because the chorus is speaking out to the people of Cithaeron and trying to reassure them that everything will be ok in the end. The loyalty factor comes into play by mentioning Apollo, being that the people and kings all bow down to creates a mutual bond.
Section 0503
Lines 543-552
CHORUS:
Strophe
who is the man proclaimed
by Delphi’s prophetic rock
as the bloody-handed murderer,
the doer of deeds that none dare name? Now is the time for him to run
with a stronger foot
than Pegasus
for the child of Zeus leaps in arms upon him with fire and the lightning bolt,
and terribly close on his heels
are the Fates that never miss.
I choose these lines because it describes OEDIPUS. The chorus is telling the people that listening about how fate is not going to miss and that the events are meant to happen will happen. Oedipus is sort of being described as a great figure but an evil one trapped in his unavoidbale fate. Oedipus does not really know that his fate is unavoidable and because of that he tries so hard to go against fate. He believes by doing things that he is supposed to avoid, he is not doing what fate ultimately demands.
Sec 0504