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In the article “How to Read a Poem” from the Poets.org website, the poet William Carlos Williams, in acknowledging the challenges of reading poetry, writes that a reader must “complete” what the poet has begun.
With specific reference to one of this week’s poems, explain how you “completed” what the poet set in motion. In your answer, be sure to refer specifically to the article and to quote from your chosen poem to illustrate your response.
Please be sure to address comments to others by name.
32 thoughts on “Week 4 Discussion”
For this activity, I selected “What lips my lips have kissed, and where, and why,” by Edna Saint Vincent Millay. I approached the work following the suggestions of “How to Read a Poem” by Edward Hirsch. I started the “conversation” with the poem by simply looking at it and allowing for impressions on first reading, without the expectation to fully understand the poem on the initial reading. From the length of the poem, I determined it is a sonnet and, based on the internal structure, more specifically one in the Italian style. In turn, I knew it would explore an aspect of love, which provided context to the title and symbolism. I also knew from the presentation that a woman wrote it, and I noted that it was written in 1920. These observations provided additional context for understanding the point of view of the author. Following the suggestions of Hirsch’s essay, I again read the poem, this time out loud. This helped me to identify that the lines in the octave have an irregular meter with one seemingly blending into the next, for instance, “…what arms have lain / Under my head till morning.” Further unpacking the poem, this struck me as an intentional device, representing how the memories of suitors from her youth have come to blend indistinctly.
Diving back into the poem again (and again), I began to identify the layers of symbolism. In the octave, the author uses words related to a part of the day (morning, tonight, midnight). Conversely, the sestet employs seasons (winter, summer), conveying a longer view of the events of past youth. The author uses evocative images to portray the memories of her past lovers (“…the rain / Is full of ghosts tonight, that tap and sigh / Upon the glass…”). By describing her past lovers as “unremarkable lads,” she reinforces that they no longer warrant individual-specific memories and the idea that these are memories from youth now long passed.
In the sestet, the author changes tone, as indicated by the change in symbolism. In this second section of the sonnet, she speaks more directly about herself. Here she has become “the lonely tree” in the “winter” of her life. Her past suitors are “birds” that have “vanished one by one,” leaving her alone in her later years. She cannot remember each of them individually, explaining, “I cannot say what loves have come and gone.” She returns to the metaphor of seasons, recognizing the “summer” of her youth and the song that no longer “sings” in her.
The poem seems remorseful, perhaps regretting the energy of her youth spent on the attention of young men that are longer a part of her life or even deserving of memory. The author projects a strong character, choosing to look back on her youth uncompromisingly, rather than romantically. Considering the poem was written in 1920, she must have been a very independent woman to write candidly about her lovers, which would have been outside of the traditional social conventions of the period.
Karl, I enjoyed taking this journey through your process of completing “What My Lips Have Kissed.” Your responses to the imagery are particularly interesting. Sometimes younger students don’t grasp the seasonal imagery that suggests the seasons of life. Some even think the woman might have had numerous failed relationships. I find the poem to be extremely poignant evocation of lost youth and, with that, the pleasures of youth, which include all the boys she once kissed. There is a sense of finality in the poem. The woman wakes on a rainy night, rembembering the summertime of her life, and thinking of things she will never have again.
“The Mother” by Gwendolyn Brooks caught my attention for the reason that it is about a very controversial topic. It is a poem about abortion and the aftermath of having one, however it is not that simple. I decided to research to better understand Gwendolyn writing this and found out that it was almost 30 years before women had the right to have an abortion. Writing this was a very brave thing of her to do. As Edward Hirsch mentioned in “How to Read a Poem” you have to read it more than once and even aloud to be able to “complete” the poem; and with this information as well, I then did. The clever thing about this poem is that it does not choose a side, she does not mention whether it is wrong or right. The poem starts off by describing the sacred moments of having a child, the moments you will “never” have and what they could have been. “I have heard in the voices of the wind the voices of my dim killed children.” I took this line as never being able to see the child however the long-term effects of always feeling it, like feeling the wind. “Believe that even in my deliberateness I was not deliberate.” Even though she willingly and consciously made the choice, it is not an easy one to make, how could one be so sure? Which leads to my next point, a guilty conscious. At the end she expresses her love, possibly trying to make herself mentally feel a bit better on the choice she made. “Though why should I whine, Whine that the crime was other than mine?” In the end, there is no one to blame but herself.
Florijana, yes, I echo your sentiments about “The Mother,” and I do think that doing additional reading on the subject matter of a poem is one important way of “completing” it. I think it is very hard to write a poem about a subject that is both so controversial and so deeply personal without, as you say, “taking sides.” It is all about the enduring emotional experience of abortion, and interestingly, I think it speaks to both sides of the issue.
Reading the poem “We Real Cool” is very concise but meaningful. I read by myself without too much attention to first impressions. I acknowledged that reading poetry is hard to read. Then I read aloud, which is important to understand poetry, with my tutor three times in order to listen to the sound and tone of the poem. Then I noticed the theme of youth and impetuousness in the poem. The most noticeable style of this poem is the ungrammatical lines which is important because punctuation and grammar creates sounds. As a result, the use of punctuation and grammar is important to poetry.
For example,
We real cool. We
Left school. We
Lurk late. We
Strike straight. We
Every line ends with ‘We” which creates the rhythm while you read it aloud. Poetry does not always have clear visuals which makes it hard to comprehend.Contextualizing poetry in a particular time and space helps me to reveal more information about the poem. Gwendolyn Brooks, who was the first black woman appointed Poet Laureate of the United States, had lived from 1917-2000 when Jazz was labeled the rebellious gerne:
“…Strike straight. We
Sing sin. We
Thin gin. We
Jazz June. We
Die soon.”
The poem emits the power of a lady in her late 20’s during the Jazz age (1930s) who encouraged people’s rights and equity through Jazz music.
Kannikar, I enjoyed this poem. The jazz era was rich and filled with culture. I agree with you on the importance of punctuation in this poem. It paints a full picture of the way the kids were really talking. I was listening to the reason Gwendolyn Brooks wrote this poem. She said she wanted to capture the full essence of the kids she was observing. She was not concerned of the kids being in a pool hall in the middle of the day when they should have been in school. She saw the beauty in their temporary freedom. I also agree with your thoughts jazz and equality/freedom. Jazz is a free flowing genre. No rules, no lines to follow, just play. It really symbolizes the natural essence of humans, to be free.
Hey stuart, i chose to reply to your poem because we picked the same one. I find it very interesting how you have a different outlook on the poem from myself. you somehow see a more joyful and open aspect to the poem than i. I found that the we die quote, correlates to death or a type of ending. Now that i think of it maybe it represents the ending of the night.
Anthony, I have no problems with the content of your comments, but please capitalize where needed in posts for English class (Smiley face).
Hi Stuart, I can feel this poem is very catchy because of the punctuation technique. The poet intentionally ends the line with the word “we” in order to generate the rhythm. I agree that the poet depicts the content in the poem, reveals the innocence of kids and sense of youth. It also reminds me when I was teenager in the high school, seeking for the freedom. I agree Jazz can free from any rules, just play and impress.
Hi Kannikar, I also selected “We are cool” by Gwendolyn Brooks. I totally agree that punctuation is important because it does create the sound and flow of the poem. Especially when she mentioned the “we” at the end of the sentence, I think this poem gave somewhat of a visual. I see friends cutting school, hanging out, playing pool, staying up late, and just having a good time, and also having a sense of jazz playing in the background during a time in June.
Hi Christie, I agree the content in the poem is visual and understandable. Even though the poem is applied with the punctuation technique which different from modern English. In addition, the flow and sound of poem are melodious and catchy. I chose this poem to response after reading just one time. From your comment at the end, I can imagine the background of jazz playing during a time in June too.
Hi Kannikar, I think the first important thing that a poet should have is his own style of writing a poem. I say this because dial style of writing because it’s creating and pull the reader and the audience attention it makes more people to remember him. Former opinion when a poet uses a style that no one was using it before it makes a big chance for the poet to be popular. It is also making the people surprise because he creates a brand-new style of writing a poem.
Hi Florijana Bicaj
I am Kannikar Sanrak. I enjoyed reading your analysis. I agree with you that the writer bravely wrote the poem with the most controversial topic at that time. I also used the same technique which is to read it more than once and even aloud to complete the poem. After reading the fourth time, I feel so emotional at the end of poem which is expressed the deep sorrow of her getting abortion. Especially, the repetition of the poem :
“Believe me, I loved you all.
Believe me, I knew you, though faintly, and I loved, I loved you
All.”
The last line, there is only the word “All” which can amplify the feeling of the poet in such a sentimental way.
For this weeks discussion, I selected “White Lies” by Natasha Trethewey. I started by reading this poem to myself. Then to get better context I researched the poet and found were I could have the poem read to me with the feeling and expression it required to fully understand what the poet was tryin to convey. This poem is about a young girl who is the off spring of an interracial union(black and white). She is fair skinned (light skinned) and is talking about her encounter with with white people in a black environment. She is struggling to acknowledge the fact that she is black and decides to lie about it because she is light enough to be white. This is a powerful poem because in the days of segregation being a black person in America wasn’t popular. It was considered a negative thing. She goes on to say “I could act
like my homemade dresses came straight out the window of Maison Blanche”. This was her way of hiding the fact that she was NOT from the rich side of the tracks, or was just ashamed of her life and heritage. The willingness to lie about her true heritage was not accepted by her mother. This was shameful, and lying was not tolerated. Her mother would wash her mouth with soup, to clean the filth and impurities that she was so willing to tell. However, it seem she was trying to keep the lie up and wash away her heritage.This poem is a harsh reality of how interracial children try so hard not to believe they are black. This is due to the stigmatizm that was put on black Americans in the Jim Crow era. This also has to be a sad situation to deal with as a parent, but it seems her mother was determined to instill a sense of dignity and pride in her.
Stuart, your post is very interesting and like how you completed the reading of the poem. Truly, the girl was struggling to acknowledge the fact that she was black and decided to lie about. And she was abled to do that because of her skin color. She was shameful of her culture and tried to mingle with the whites. She lies about everything, where she lives, the clothes and other things. This was because, the blacks were being disrespected at that time. The mother didn’t like that. They were from a good home where lying wasn’t tolerated.
Good one. Thank you
Stuart, I don’t usually respond personally to posts submitted after Wednesday, but I think your comments here offer both a good personal response and a nice discussion of the poem’s theme and story.
The poetry I used for this week’s discussion board is “My Mistress’ Eyes are Nothing Like the Sun” (Sonnet 130). It is hard to understand the author’s meaning when you read the poetry. A challenge for me is that I never read William Shakespeare’s poetry, so I do not know his writing style. The part that I am confused about is that he uses different language or different comparisons than regular poets typically use to describe a woman. Usually poets compare their lovers to beauty, stating that they are more beautiful than the sun, or smell better than flowers, or have lips more colorful than coral. But in this poem for example, “My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun.” “Coral. is far more red than her lips’ red.” These are two lines from the poetry. From the first part of this poem, this is not a regular way that a Poet will use to describe a woman. And then in the last part, he turned over his language style and said that this woman is very special in the world. Like for example, “I think my love as rare as any she belied with false compare.” This is the last line of the poem. This shows how he changed his style and states that this woman is a remarkable beautiful lady in the world for him.
Jiang, I am happy that someone in the class selected “My Mistress’ Eyes are Nothing Like the Sun.” I was close to choosing this poem myself. I genuinely enjoyed this sonnet as I find it charming and witty. It is quite humorous how, in the first twelve lines, Shakespeare piles on insults and slights, only to brush them all away in the couplet with a declaration of his true adoration. I think of this as Shakespeare exploring traditional sayings such as “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” This is a classic theme that continues to be explored in modern times. Modern examples that come to mind include the Jerome Kern / Oscar Hammerstein II song “Just My Bill” from Showboat and “Timeless to Me” from the musical adaptation of Hairspray.
Hello Karl I personally choose this poem because he used different writing style than the regular poet and is very interesting to me.
Karl, thanks for the references to popular culture with respect to the theme of Sonnet 130. I agree that the sonnet is very witty and also surprising. When I first read it, it took me a minute to realize that the first twelve lines are a big spoof on flowery love poems. I love how you express it as a pile-on of insults. I think it’s pretty hilarious, yet, as you note, there is a serious message at the end.
Jiang, I’m so glad you are exploring Shakespeare for the first time. Sonnet 130 is poem that exhibits some of the humor of Shakespeare. Sometimes we have to read a few lines to realize that he is making fun of overly flowery love poems (and those who write them) as he describes the subject of the poem. The last two lines, however, make a somewhat serious point about what real love is and also, what real poetry is.
Jiang, I agree that Shakespeare definitely is not straightforward in his approach to description but like the article by Williams explained, that is the beauty to it. I think this poem is trying to say, in perhaps overzealous way, but nonetheless masterful, that his mistress is even more beautiful than he can find a metaphor in nature (in the spirit of sonnets). I think we are able to let go of trying to figure out exactly what he meant but more what we want to think and feel when we read his words. But that is what is so exciting about the experience of reading poetry – that it really is a personal experience. I also appreciate that you mentioned your difficulties reading poetry and Shakespeare. A friend of mine is an actress that specializes in Shakespearian plays and this week I mentioned to her that I saw Shakespeare on the list of assignments and was dreading it. She suggested to me that I watch and listen to Shakespeare because that is essentially how he intended it to be consumed. I followed her advice and it definitely made his work more approachable. I definitely had more luck understanding his works when I looked up videos of the sonnets being read and I even dare say I enjoyed it.
explain how you “completed” what the poet set in motion. In your answer, be sure to refer specifically to the article and to quote from your chosen poem to illustrate your response. I chose the poem We Real Cool by Gwendolyn Brooks. I selected it because of it’s simplicity and in that, open the readers mind to many interpretations. By listening to her brief description of what inspired the author, i’ve came up with two similar but different ways to “complete” this poem. The author states that the poem was insppired by her passing a pool hall in her neighborhood, where she noticed a group of young men who were hanging out around the same time as school is in session, and instead of wondering about their schooling, she wondered how did they feel about themselves. With the quote “Jazz June. We Die soon.” spoke to me in a few ways, one being a representation of a lifetime of one who lives a lawless life, typically thinking they are “cool”, sadly sometimes ends up in a horrible death. Another aspect of it, that hit me was the thought of one who by living a “cool” life, can also get wrapped up within having too much fun, yet not realize hoe fast time can fly and much of life has been wasted on temporary things. In the beginning of the poem, it gives off a sort of breaking free type of energy, so to end it off with die soon, brought me to the point of coming up with meaning and ways that can happen, which is how i came to complete this poem
“How Do I Love Thee” by Elizabeth Barrett Browning is a very interesting poem. The poem was written by a woman in 1850, the era when woman were expected to stay home and look after domestic things. The very first line is a question asked by the poet in a conversational way, trying to find reasons for her love. Her attempts to measure her love, she use words like depth, breadth, height , soul , being, and grace to expressed her unconditional love. Her love goes beyond natural life. “For the end of being and ideal grace” (line 4). The first 9 lines are more of expressing her passionate and humble kind of love. The love that fills most quiet moments between two people being it day or night. “I love thee to the level of every day’s/most quiet need, by sun and candle-light,
Reading from line 10-14 , I noticed that the poet looks to the past. She compares her new passion with old griefs. Line 10 -11, definitely tells her childhood might been a happy one, but had experienced negativity in her past life and probably a lost of a love one. “In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith / I love thee with a love I seemed to lose”. Her new found love is of eternity. She believes if God would grants it, her love will go beyond grave gaining more strength. ” and, if God choose / I shall but love thee better after death”. Her love is transcendent one.
Daniel, this is a good breakdown of the poem, but the question for this week is a more personal one. What did you do to “complete” the reading of this chosen poem?
For this activity, I chose “My mistress’ eyes are nothing like the sun” (Sonnet 130) by William Shakespeare. It is a poem in which the author compares his lover to a number of beauties but not in the lover’s favor. Her eyes are “nothing like the sun”, her lips are less red than coral, her hairs are like black wires on her head. He says that her breath that ”reeks” from his mistress is less delightful than perfume. In the third quatrain he admits that though he loves her voice, music “hath a far more pleasing sound”. Also at the end the speaker declares that he thinks his love is rare and valuable. At that time when the sonnet was written, most sonnet sequences in Elizabethan England were written as a series of love poems to an idealized and idolized mistress named Laura. Where they praised her beauty, worth, and her perfection. But Shakespeare makes it clear that loving someone when you see their flaws is what matters. He says that it’s rarer to love someone with full knowledge of their faults than to idealize someone and love them for what they aren’t. His love is the truer love because it’s the one that’s real.
Aiyah, I have to repeat a similar comment I made to Daniel in a recent post. You have a good breakdown of Sonnet 130, but the question for this week is a more personal one. What did you do to “complete” the reading of your selected poem?
In “How to Read a Poem,” William Carlos Williams explains how we go about “completing” a poem: “This act of completion begins when you enter the imaginative play of a poem, bringing to it your experience and point of view” (Williams). Partially because of the condensed format, but also as the entire essence of a poem, poems are often very open ended. The beautiful part of poetry is that we must infer or fill in much of the information, even form a story from fragments of one. This inference that each reader or listener must make poetry reading a highly personal process and one that is not “spoon fed” but there is great responsibility on the reader to create his or her own experience that is unique. As Williams explained, “Literature is, and has always been, the sharing of experience, the pooling of human understanding about living, loving, and dying” (Williams). The writers of sonnets typically explore broad themes of love, nature, and beauty. These are themes that are fundamental of the human experience but the details of which differ broadly. Language and the vivid imagery present in sonnets particularly has the ability to paint a variety of pictures in our minds, depending on our associations with those words. This creates a sense of personal introspection for the poetry consumer.
For example, while reading Sonnet 43 by Elizabeth Barret Browning (1850), it felt as though the narrator was an older love rather than a young tortured Shakespeare Romeo and Juliet-type love. I imagined the narrator was referring to a deeply loved husband rather than someone she just met or just fell in love with. Her love felt stable, not frantic, but great. This stood out to me as a more mature love, one that is steady and always growing stronger, never failing. I came to this conclusion from the 9th and 10th lines: “I love thee with the passion put to use / In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith” (Browning). By the last two lines I also saw myself imaging the man she loves very sick, for it seems odd to me that someone would mention with sorrowful acceptance that someone she loves may die if he was not actually in a state where that seemed immediately probable. However, that could also be strange old fashioned sonnet melodrama. Perception and completion of this poem has probably also evolved throughout the years since this poem was published in 1850. Even within the modern viewpoint, I have preconceptions and feelings about love and relationships that helped me to complete the poem in a manner unique to myself.
For this week’s discussion, I choose the poem “We are cool” by Gwendolyn Brooks. When reading poetry, I have to admit that there are times that I do believe that there is some type of code to crack when reading it, depending on the poem of course. We all interpret things differently. Gwendolyn had mentioned that the poem “We are cool” was banned because some people took the word “Jazz” as to a sexual reference when she meant jazz as the music. So, at times, when we first read a poem, we make an assumption and interpret it in a way so we can understand it.
When reading “We are cool”, you can sense the rhythm within the rhyme. Especially towards the end of each “We”, you make a pause. These pauses cause the poem to have a rhythm and inspire the reader to understand individual words and sounds. I believe the style of the poem is grammatical style, the grammar and punctuation help in creating the sound/rhythm.