Discussion Board 6.2

  1. What concept that we have already discussed does “faction” remind you of?

The concept of “faction” in “Federalist #10” reminds me of the idea of social conflict or class struggle that we’ve discussed previously. Just as factions represent groups with specific interests that may conflict with those of others, social classes can also be seen as groups with distinct economic interests that can sometimes be in opposition to each other.

2.According to Federalist #10 (written by James Madison), what is the source of wealth (private property)? What factor explains why some people get to possess wealth by owning private property, and others don’t (thus remaining poor)? This is a key question, because it shows how the authors of the Constitution thought about the difference between different classes of Americans! HINT: focus on the passage that begins: “The diversity in the faculties (WHAT DOES FACULTIES mean or refer to?) of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not les….”

In Federalist #10, James Madison discusses the source of wealth, which he attributes to the diversity in the faculties of men. Here, “faculties” refers to the various abilities, talents, and skills possessed by individuals. Madison suggests that the unequal distribution of these faculties leads to differences in the acquisition of property, with some individuals able to accumulate wealth through their talents and efforts, while others remain impoverished due to their lack of such advantages.

3.Do you agree with this explanation of wealth and poverty?

Whether one agrees with Madison’s explanation of wealth and poverty depends on their perspective. While Madison’s argument acknowledges individual agency and merit as factors in wealth accumulation, it overlooks systemic barriers and inequalities that can hinder certain groups’ access to property and economic opportunities. Factors such as historical injustices, discrimination, and socioeconomic disparities also play significant roles in shaping patterns of wealth and poverty.Factors such as historical injustices, discrimination, and socioeconomic disparities also play significant roles in shaping patterns of wealth and poverty. Personally, I disagree with Madison’s explanation as it fails to adequately address the structural and systemic factors that contribute to wealth inequality, thereby oversimplifying the complexities of socioeconomic dynamics.

4.What is the core mission (“first object”) of the US government? Does this surprise you, does it sound different from what our society today seems to suggest the core mission of the government is? Explain.

The core mission, or “first object,” of the US government according to Federalist #10 is to protect the rights of individuals and their property from the encroachments of factions. This mission prioritizes safeguarding the stability and prosperity of property-owning individuals, reflecting the concerns and interests of the American capitalist class at the time. This focus may sound different from contemporary perspectives that emphasize broader social welfare and equality, indicating a shift in societal priorities over time.

5.Given the discussion in questions 1-4, are you surprised that Federalist #10 is not in favor of democracy, and supports a Republican (representative) form of government? Why would d the author dislike a (pure) democratic form of government? Hint: think about how this question connects with the social classes…

It’s not surprising that Federalist #10 is not in favor of pure democracy and supports a republican form of government, considering the author’s concerns about the tyranny of factions. Madison, as a representative of the elite class, would likely fear the potential for majority rule to threaten the interests of property owners and undermine the stability of society. By advocating for a republic, Madison seeks to establish a system of governance that balances popular representation with safeguards against the unchecked power of the masses, thereby protecting the interests of the economic elite.

Discussion Board 6.1

1.Based on the arguments presented in Readings 6.1 and 6.2, which social class wrote the Constitution, and which class was excluded and not allowed to participate in this process? In your comment, make sure you clearly specify the difference between the two classes by giving examples from the readings.

The social class that predominantly wrote the Constitution consisted of wealthy landowners, merchants, and creditors, as argued by Charles Beard in Reading 6.2. These individuals were economically privileged and sought to protect their own interests, such as property rights and economic stability. On the other hand, the class excluded from the constitutional process was the working class, particularly laborers and those lacking material wealth. Their voices and perspectives were marginalized, as they did not hold significant economic or political power. For example, Beard highlights the economic motivations of the framers, showing how their wealth and property interests shaped the Constitution to favor their class.

    2.Would say that the social class structure of early United States society, was the same as ours today, or different? Explain.

    The social class structure of early United States society was different from ours today. In the 18th century, the society was primarily agrarian, with a smaller industrial base, and was largely structured around agricultural landownership. Additionally, there were fewer layers of economic stratification compared to today’s complex capitalist society, with more distinct class boundaries. However, there are still parallels in terms of wealth inequality and the influence of economic interests on politics.

    3.Why were the people who wrote the Constitution so afraid of democracy? Hint: think about how to answer this question by discussing it in terms of social classes.

    The people who wrote the Constitution were apprehensive about democracy because they feared the potential for majority rule to threaten their economic interests and property rights. The wealthy elite, who primarily composed the framers, were concerned that a purely democratic system would empower the working class and lead to redistributive policies that could undermine their wealth and privilege. Therefore, they crafted a system of checks and balances to temper the influence of democracy and preserve their own socioeconomic status.

    Lynette Boyd- Who wrote it?

    1. The Constitution was written by the wealthy/upper class and it was the working class who were excluded and not allowed to participate in the process. The wealthy class consisted of merchants, manufacturers, land and slave owners and it was this group who took part in writing the Constitution because they were invited and had the means to travel to Philadelphia. They were made sure to have an invite in order to attend to defend what was important to them and to reinforce or encourage new policy (again that would benefit them). The working class would have the opposite experience and could not attend, even if invited, because they had to work and could not afford to take the time off.

    2. I would say that the social class structure of the early United states society is the same as ours today, but of course there are slight differences. For example, what makes it similar is that the wealthy citizens of America is who has the most say. It is the upper class who can afford to fund politicians and policies that favor them and it is the upper class who have the flexibility and opportunity to attend conferences, organized meetings, can take time off to vote, and have access to resources that will explain (in depth) the different policies and what they mean. On the other hand, it is the working class who may not have the flexibility to do or access half of what the wealthy can. Now, that is different is that women can now vote and slavery has been abolished and regardless of the color of your skin, you are able to run for different positions in government. That doesn’t mean there aren’t challenges behind that because the powers and history of this government was not built with people of color in mind.

    3. The people who wrote the constitution were afraid of democracy because they did not want to give up their position of power. Democracy would mean they wouldn’t have control over the policies and that would affect their socioeconomic and wealth status.

    kelsey wedderburn

    1. The social class that wrote the constitution were the delegate class. While the ones that weren’t allowed to participate were the working class which consisted of Native Americans, white males without property, indentured servants, and all females of different race. For example, According to reading 6.2, “Those who possessed the ballot and economic power were compelled to safeguard their rights.” Only the people that has wealth were able to protect the rights and had the voice to exercise them. On the other hand, “The slaves, servants, men who had no property and woman were disenfranchised and subjected to the discriminations or the common law,” this shows that people who were working class didn’t have a say when it came to common laws and they weren’t given the right to change them, they had to accept it for what it was.

    2. The social structure of the early U.S. society isn’t the same as ours today because many people weren’t able to vote because of the social class there were in. As of right now in the 21st century anybody thats a US citizen can vote. In the 1700s there were a a lot of people who couldn’t vote because of their income.

    3. The people who wrote the constitution were afraid of the democracy because they were worried that it would effect there system of governance.

    Brandon Entenberg Discussion Board 6.1

    1. Reading 6.1 shows the economic status of the Constitution’s framers, describing them as elites. Typically, they were wealthy businessmen, lawyers, slave owners, and landowners. James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and George Washington are a few examples of these people. Reading 6.2 shows the framers were mainly apart of the real property holding class, which included small farmers, manorial lords, and plantations that kept slaves. To protect their advantages in politics and the economy, these people had a stake in the Constitution’s development. As in reading 6.2, the classes excluded from the Constitutional process were women, indentured servants, slaves, and those who were ineligible to vote.

    2. In the readings, the social class structure of early American society is different from society as of today. Neglected communities were left out, and the framers of the Constitution belonged to an exclusive class of landowners. The social and economic status is now determined by a wider variety of details, such as education, and occupation.

    3. The framers were afraid of democracy because they feared the working may have an impact on laws that would go against the wealthy class’s financial interests. In reading 6.2, Madison advised against the industrial masses from having an excessive amount of influence in politics because it could jeopardize public liberty and property rights.

    Discussion board 6.1, (Gabriela Gonzalez)

    1. By both readings, I can surely say that the social class who wrote the Constitution was the upper class. A class formed by white men which is a little bit ironic for me considering the fact that the Constitution says that “[We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal].” However, they were leaving certain groups outside of this claim. They wrote that we are all equal but left out people from the lower class as we see in the next quote from reading 6.2 [“our groups whose economic status had a definite legal expression: the slaves, the indentured servants, the mass of men who could not qualify for voting].” Another point that made me concluded that the responsible to wrote the Constitution were white folks from the upper class is pointed out in the next quote from reading 6.1 “In 1787, just such wealthy and powerful “gentlemen,” our “Founding Fathers,” congregated in Philadelphia for the professed purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and strengthening the central government.” 

    2. Of course yes, a hundred percent sure. I would say that until this day, the United States society is following the same structure when it comes to class position as the one followed back in the time of the Constitution’s writing.  Today we still have the upper class dominating almost the entire wealth of the country, the lower class drawing in debts, and we still see how the working class are still making company’s owners jobs for a minimum salary. That is why I believe that we are still following that social class structure as the early United States Society.

    3. Because a government of total democracy doesn’t benefit private property which was exactly what the people who wrote the Constitution were trying to protect. The people who wrote the Constitution were rich trying to save their interest which were their goods and everything that they had.

    Alejandra Mieles- The Constitution

    1. Based on the arguments presented in Readings 6.1 and 6.2, which social class wrote the Constitution, and which class was excluded and not allowed to participate in this process? In your comment, make sure you clearly specify the difference between the two classes by giving examples from the readings. In reading 6.1, “Democracy for the Few” by Michael Parenti, they identify the people of the Constitution as “just such wealthy and powerful ‘gentlemen’, our Founding Fathers.” (Parenti p.6). They excluded “poor farmers, Artisans, Indentured servants, or slaves” from “attending the convention to proffer an opposing viewpoint.” (Parenti p.9). In reading 6.2, “An Economic Interpretation of the Constitution of the United States” by Charles Beard, they identify the “Founding Fathers” as by Madison “the Republican liberty” (Beard p.1); and the working class to be excluded from politics.
    2. Would say that the social class structure of early United States society, was the same as ours today, or different? Explain. In todays society, there are very similar things in our class structure between the early United States society. An example is taxes. In the passage, “Democracy for the Few” by Michael Parenti, it states, “This process of using the taxing power to gain money from the working populace in order to bolster private fortunes continues to this day.” (Parenti p.9).
    3. Why were the people who wrote the Constitution so afraid of democracy? Hint: think about how to answer this question by discussing it in terms of social classes. The people who wrote the Constitution stated democracy to be “the worst of all Political evils.’ As Elbridge Gerry put it.” (Parenti p.8). This was because they believed democracy would give to much power to the people of society in having some rule and opinion in politics. In, “Democracy for the Few” by Michael Parenti, “Roger Sherman concurred: ‘The people should have as little to do as may be about the Government’ (Parenti p.8).

    Sady Franco Rodriguez~ Discussion Board 6.1

    1. The Constitution was written by the wealthy capitalist class. ” In 1787, just such wealthy and powerful “gentlemen,” our “Founding Fathers,” congregated in Philadelphia for the professed purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and strengthen the central government.” (Reading 6.1). The social class that was excluded were the working-class people, minorities and women. ” The slaves, the indented servants, the mass of men who could not qualify for voting under the property tests imposed by the state consecution laws, and women, disenfranchised and subjected to the discrimination of the common law. These groups were, therefore, not represented in the Convention which drafted the Constitution.”(Reading 6.2).
    2. I would say that our social class structure of early United States society is the same because if we think back to module 5, we learned that only 1% of the population owns the nation’s wealth while 90% of the population is struggling. Which was the case even back in the early days the rich got richer, and the poor became poorer because of the implications that come with living in a society where there are such huge wealth inequalities is that it can make it hard for people to grow economically.
    3. The people who wrote the Constitution were so afraid of democracy because they only cared about how they could protect their wealth and had no real interests with helping the lower struggling class.” In 1787, a worried George Washington wrote to a former comrade-in-arms that a constitution was much needed “to contain the threat of the people rather than to embrace their participation and their competence,” lest ” the anarchy of the propertyless would give way to despotism.””(Reading 6.1). They wanted people to feel like they had a say but in reality, they didn’t. ” The first object of government is the protection of different and unequal faculties of acquiring property. So, government is there to see that those who have a taken for getting rich are not hampered in any way by those how might be poor in the process.”(Reading 6.1).

    Kitt Nivans Response to Discussion Board 6.1

    1. Based on the arguments presented in Readings 6.1 and 6.2, which social class wrote the Constitution, and which class was excluded and not allowed to participate in this process? In your comment, make sure you specify the difference between the two classes by giving examples from the readings.
      The capitalist class wrote the Constitution, while the working class was excluded and not allowed to participate in the process. According to reading 6.1, even if ordinary, working-class individuals were permitted, they were not able to take time off of work to go to Philadelphia to argue their positions as the Constitution was being written. Therefore, it was the capitalist class of early America, the merchants, slaveowners, and manufacturers, who assisted with writing the Constitution as they were able to attend and were invited to do so to protect their interests (and those of the Founding Fathers, who also were within the capitalist class). Additionally, when it came to holding office and participating in the government, people had to have a certain amount of wealth before they were able to take part, so once again, there was a strong division between the working class and the capitalist class, where the capitalist class helped to write the constitution in their favor.
    2. Would say that the social class structure of early United States society, was the same as ours today, or different? Explain.
      The social class structure of the early United States society seems to be nearly identical to what it is today. The social class structure of today is divided between the capitalist class who owns a lot of wealth and the working class that own some, little, or no wealth, which is the same as it was in the early days of the United States. While the means of production and social climate may have changed, the actual social class structure remains the same, as the Constitution writing had hoped it would.
    3. Why were the people who wrote the Constitution so afraid of democracy? Hint: think about how to answer this question by discussing it in terms of social classes.
      According to reading 6.1, the working class wanted to abolish debts (which were to be paid to the capitalist class), and equally divide property (giving more to the working class and thus taking away from the capitalist class), among other things. In a democracy, where all people genuinely had the right to vote, the working class as the majority would be able to better fight for these things and thus remove capital and power from the capitalist class. This is opposed to the situation that the Constitution established, where only the wealthy White men who owned land could vote, who still represented a minority and were more likely to be part of the capitalist class like the writers of the Constitution. Therefore, democracy was a terrifying concept to the capitalist class that wrote the Constitution, as they wanted to maintain their wealth and power and protect it from being taken from them. Democracy was a terrifying concept for them because it would mean that they could lose their footing, power, and money to those that they deemed as less intelligent and less able to uphold the country.