Kianna Changoo – Discussing “Social Class” Once More!

1.) Reading 4.3 introduces the idea of “owners” and “employees” in an attempt to understand the concept of “social class.” Basically, it serves the purpose of knowing that they are two social classes that differ from each other because of how much income they make and the effort needed in order to obtain it. Owners are considered to be the wealthy while the employees are poor or struggling individuals trying to make ends meet. For example, according to paragraph 1 of page 29 it states, “The very rich families and individuals who compose the owning class live mostly off investments, which include stocks, bonds,
rents, mineral royalties, and other property income.” This quote from the text not only allows an understanding for the owning class to be comprised of the wealthy but how they are able to make their wealth is what aids in their success. Stocks, bonds, rents, etc… are all but a few ways in how someone can earn income without the hassle of working very hard. On the other hand, there are “employees” who make their money as well but from little income and hard work. For example, according to paragraph 1 of page 29 states, “Their employees live mostly off wages, salaries, and fees.” This quote from the text is an ideal summarization of what people in this class live off and why they are not as wealthy. These people practically live off of what they work, if they don’t work there is no pay. They aren’t like the owners who are able to have income come to them passively. Not to mention, they work for the owners and the owners do not pay them enough considering the amount of labor they do.

2.) Adam Smith’s quote on page 28 spoke about labor from a different standpoint. From my understanding, he is trying to say that considering the world we live in there is no such thing as labor being the same. So, considering the amount of hours it takes for an object to be produced is a lot. It would obviously be a lot but the product does not tell the consumer how much effort went into such a process. Although there are labors that require an immense amount of skill more than others, there is no real way in measuring the labor went into creating something. Also, the money that is paid to have the product does compensate for the amount of effort that was put into it.

3.) Reading 4.4 created the argument that “class is not an identity.” This meant that despite various people across the country saying that social class exists because we have the wealthy and poor, it is simply not the way we should be looking at it. “Workers” or those who are considered to be poor and work for low income actually have just as much power compared to the “capitalists.” They practically need each other, one cannot thrive without the other. Capitalists need workers for their cooperation in order to get the necessary labor done. Not to mention, any wrong moves that the capitalist makes can instantly ruin their business. With workers, they need to work in order to make that paycheck but they can either be a “good worker” and do as their told or express themselves and possibly aid their overseer so that business can continue running smoothly. One cannot operate without the other and so, people need each other in order to thrive in this society.

4.) When Reading 4.4 makes the argument that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency,” I believe that they are referring to the relationship of capitalists and workers needing each other. Their businesses cannot thrive without if they have no workers to produce labor. An example I can think of is, let’s say a popular gaming franchise is worth billions. They are known for creating various titles but there is one in particular that sparked public interests for years. The next installment is coming and it’s lead developer suddenly leaves with a couple of game designers and mechanics. Not only are the people who created the infamous installments from the past have left. It will create a uncertain future for the next one. Everyone has different visions for ideas and despite having a new group of workers, the new installment can make or break the company, it’s reputation, and cause a stir for both the workers and the company.


Belinda Hinckley-Discussion Board 4.2

1.What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each. 

There are many crucial differences between the owners who have most of the wealth in society and the employees who must work to survive. Those who live in owning class families can use their stocks, bonds, rents, payments for minerals, and money for owning property to pay for their necessities and luxuries. Those employed by the owning class are forced to live off their wages, salaries, and fees for their labor. However sometimes it gets confusing because owners can be both the wealthy citizens who have stocks in large corporations and can also be struggling business owners. However, those struggling owners don’t meet the requirements of the wealthy owning class citizens. The smaller businesses usually get eaten alive by the larger corporations run by the owning class.  

The employee class consists of factory and service workers, as well as people who are managers and business professionals who fall in the middle or upper-class bracket. Those who are in managerial and executive positions are considered employees who are hired to get their employees to work harder and produce a superior product in all fields of business. Some employees make enough money to climb up the corporate ladder and become members of the owning class themselves. To put it plainly, you belong to the owning class when you have a substantial amount of income and live off the labor that others put in working for your business. Additionally, owners can accumulate a generous sum of money through multiple investments. You don’t become prosperous just by putting in the effort and working hard. You gain wealth by having laborers put in the effort for you. Therefore, many people who worked in factories all their lives retire with extraordinarily little money to show for it, while owners collect a sizable amount of money.  

2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor? 

Adam Smith, a man who is considered one of the founding fathers of capitalism, stated that “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only” (Parenti 28). This means that many things begin to become complicated once products are traded for money. Smith explains that not all work is the same and measuring the amount of labor that was put in to produce an object may not have the capacity to tell us how much effort went into making the product. Certain labor involves more skill than others. There is no straightforward way to solve this issue because there is no real way to figure out the accurate measure of labor. However, a lot of work is put into making each product such as manufacturing, shipping, advertising, and selling the item. Furthermore, only a small amount of the money workers receive for their efforts represents the amount of wealth that was accumulated from that one item. 

 I don’t believe this is the right way to reward the efforts these workers put into making these products. It looks like the product itself holds more value than the demanding work it took to create it. Consumers don’t think about the workers who made their products while purchasing them, they think about the value of the product and how it will make their life easier. It seems as if the owners take advantage of this school of thought while selling items their employees worked hard to make to their consumers. They understand that all consumers care about is product value, and as a result, the owners can get away with paying their employees a wage that is much lower than they deserve. As stated in the Michael Parenti article, workers who were under the employment of Intel and Exxon had one ninth of their value added to their wages. Most of the money accumulated from their business was made up of the surplus value, the money obtained by the owners. In businesses like tobacco and pharmaceuticals, the workers only received one-twentieth of their value added. In the United States, rate of value going to the owner has doubled within the past 50 years.   

4. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?  

I agree with the main argument that class should not be part of someone’s identity. Class identity can influence someone’s overall happiness, a person’s sense of safety and security, it can impact who we choose to associate and interact with, and even how we experience law enforcement and the justice system. We should learn to eliminate class from our identities and find a better way of labeling ourselves.  

Even people who claim not to use class as an identity incorporate it into their daily lives. In Paul Heidman’s article Class Rules Everything Around Me, Heidman expresses that class politics is just another form of identity politics. Politicians like Bernie Sanders have run on the platform of attacking big business and billionaires on Wall Street. He has publicly rejected the use of identity politics, but according to Heidman, this isn’t completely true. Class is considered an identity, just like race or gender, but to achieve the balance socialists strive for, they see it as the most important identity. When socialists declare that they oppose identity politics they are simply using their own adaptation of it, leaving aside the key factors of racial and gender discrimination.  

An example of this being used in a harmful way would be during the 2016 primary when Hillary Clinton responded to Bernie Sanders ignoring social issues and focusing too much on class politics. Clinton is quoted asking if the banks were suddenly broken up if it would resolve issues with racism, homophobia, and xenophobia? The answer is clearly no. People who are too heavily focused on issues of class and social standing are not putting their energy towards solving the world’s most serious problems. Furthermore, someone whose main goal isn’t to destroy racial, gender, and other varieties of oppression that don’t include class, cannot call themselves faithful to the left side of the aisle. There are very few social and political movements pertaining to class identity and it’s often used during political campaigns just to seek votes from a particular group of people, like Trump going after working class voters during his 2016 and 2020 campaigns.   

 4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example? 

In reading 4.4 it states that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency.” Unlike the concept of whiteness being reliant on blackness, the notion of “worker” is not contingent on the capitalist to hold value. A worker is reliant on an owner or capitalist to provide them with a job, and a capitalist is supposed to manipulate his workers so he can continue to hold onto his top position. As expressed by Heidman “a white person’s whiteness, by contrast isn’t dependent on any particular relationship with or actions by nonwhite people” (Heidman 4). Both a racist and a non-racist are white in the same way. Now the system of class structures works in a form of interdependency where you’re constantly under the threat of your capitalist employer. Simultaneously the workers have the option of threatening to remove their capitalist employer from their position at the top. Thus, this is a system of threat vs. threat. The capitalists not only have power over their workers but have power within society. The public depends on the capitalists to produce a product, and the capitalists can choose not to produce that product if they think it won’t make enough money. Society is responsible for making sure the capitalists maintain their success, so they keep producing more items for them.  

Taikiem Jennings- Social Class

  1. The distinction that 4.3 makes between owners and employees is that the range of incomes between both classes makes this distinction. To be considered an “owner” in this term refers to the wealthy stockholders of big corporations. An example of the owner would be seen as folks that live off investments, which can include stocks and bonds. The employees in regards to this are those that live off their wages, salaries and fees. So someone at the management level or below a management position would be considered in this title. 
  2. Adam Smith quote to me means labor is the value of any product or service that you’re paying for. If you want to place an order for a product or service that is being done it all equals money. What makes something become a profit is that you are taking the time to put work for the product or service. You then may be manufacturing, shipping, advertising and selling products. I believe that he is saying that the labor that you are doing will turn into a profit. 
  3. I believe that the statement that class is not an identity. I believe this statement to be false because there is more to say to this argument. Paul Heidman argues that its class is like an identity in regards to race or gender and that socialist believe that it’s the most important identity. They are not rejecting the idea but instead they are promoting their favored version of what it means. 
  4. I understand this to mean that there are two parts to understanding what it means to be class structure in different forms of hierarchy. The first part talks about class structures that are built around close forms of dependencies. The second part to this is off the basis of capitalist class power. They have control over their society’s productive assets which forces all of society into dependency at once. An example of this is a worker is always in a position of having their interest at least threatened by employers’ capitalist views. 

Discussion 4.2

What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.

  1. The distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees are, owners ” owning class live off of investments like stock, bonds, rent from the working class, and royalties to name a few. Owners make their money from the labor of other people and crush any competition from small business. Employees which are called “workers” in Reading 4.3 are those who live off of wages and salaries. Workers executives and managers also pull value from other workers to get a high level performance to add more or keep profit moving for owners. And example of an Owners is someone like Mark Cuban who is apart of the 1%, and an example of a worker is the basketball players who work in his team the Dallas Mavericks.

How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?

  1. Adam Smith states on pg 28 “labor…is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and place be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their normal price only”. I understand this quote to mean that the value of services and products is determined by the labor it has t produce the product and services. Labor is the real value and the more labor the more value comes from the product.

How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?

  1. The close form of dependency means that the worker is dependent on the capitalist, firm, cooperation, or job. The capitalist, firm, cooperation, and job is dependent on the worker in order to keep the on going exploration of its workers and the labor to maintain the position. An example of close form dependency is a large cooperation like Macy’s who has thousands of worker and brings in billion in revenue only to pay a lot of their workers minimum wage.

What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?

  1. I do not agree with the reading that class is not an identity. I believe that class along with other life attributes like religion and race do determine identity. Those who come from working class families have different privileges opposed to those who are considered upper class and are shaped different. Access to basic life necessities are harder to get and they are dependent on big corporations.

Tristan Flinn 4.2

1.Owners live off of investments and bonds and things like that, while employers live off their wage, basic salary, and fees. Sometimes even tips if you’re in restaurant work if that’s your job.

2.I think it is saying not all labor is the same, and sometimes you can be getting paid really low for all the labor you do. Some labor is inhumane compared to certain other things we get paid for. 

3.I agree with this argument, you should not make your class your identity, rich or poor, it should not define who you are as a person. You shouldn’t make your identity your money, whether you’ve always had money or you haven’t. You can rise up and be a decent person regardless your “Labeled” class…

4.Class structures are sort of built along dependency, basically saying that higher ups depend on the lower, and we do the same. For example the government will do an expensive thing and we will see that in a tax raise. Or we will see it somewhere in the citizens having to pay for it. 

Discussion Board 4.2

  1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.
  2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?
  3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?
  4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?