Kinsey Martyn – Discussion Board 4.2

1. The main distinction between owners and employees according to the reading 4.3 is that owners are primarily those who live off investments. For example, those with stocks, bonds, rent, and those with other forms of primary income. An example of an owner in this case would be a person who is wealthy, mainly obtaining their money through dividends without working for them. In contrast, the employees are individuals that live off wages, salaries, etc, from their own labor. An example of an employee would be an office worker who earns their wage by working under another supervisor or company manager overseeing other employees to complete similar tasks. The difference is based on how owners acquire wealth by benefiting from the labor of others while the employee earns their income by working themselves. 

2. The quote by Adam Smith states, “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only.” Within this quote it displays the idea that the value of products is perceived by the amount of labor put into that specific task. Even after that quote the sentence afterwards states, “What transforms a tree into a profitable commodity such as paper or furniture is the labor that goes into harvesting the timber, cutting the lumber, and manufacturing, shipping, advertising, and selling the finished product—…” It provides a perspective about the actual work, effort, and time that went into creating something of value. While the monetary value is representative of the value of said product only being used as a source of exchange. The quote suggests that the use of money itself to show value isn’t necessarily representative of the product itself, but of the labor that goes into it. 

3. The argument about class politics not being an identity, but rather as a structure of power was interesting to see being discussed. Heideman displays that socialists do not deny that class can form an identity, it is distinct from other identities because it is foundational to the power structures that shape society. This structural relationship gives class a special status in socialist thought, making it central to addressing not only class oppression but also other forms of inequality. This structural perspective emphasizes how class shapes people’s conditions, actions, and interests, which are inherently different from race or gender identities. Class conjures exploitation and dependence, where capitalists rely on workers for profit, and workers depend on capitalists for jobs.

4. In reading 4.4 in regards to the statement, “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” is referring to the relationship between the capitalists and workers and how they are dependent on each other. This is structural because of the fact that capitalists are relying on the workers to make profit while the workers are dependent on the capitalists to provide wages for their jobs. The capitalists want to maximize their profits for as little loss as possible and this philosophy causes a detriment to their workers through terrible work conditions and well-being being significantly reduced in the workplace. An example of this can be people who work in factories working in assembly lines, completing monotonous work. For instance, Apple factory workers are displayed to have unfavorable working conditions in their production facilities. This is particularly in overseas factories where numerous reports of consistently long hours, low wages, and low recreation times. These workers are extremely beneficial to the company as they can produce their products at an accelerated rate and for next to nothing in terms of wages. These workers are inherently trapped in these conditions for economic necessity as they need these wages to survive. This displays the direct imbalance between the workers, and the capitalist’s need for more profit.

Tiffany Maldonado Discussion Board 4.2

The distinction that reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees is that owners are the ones who own the wealth of society and employees are those who must work for a living. The wealthy families and individuals who compose the owning class live mostly off investments, which include stocks, bonds, rents, mineral royalties, and other property income. They are part of the owning class because they earn money from things they own rather than working. Employees, on the other hand, are people who need to work for their income. They rely on wages, salaries, and fees for their living. Owners often have more control over businesses and resources, allowing them to influence important decisions. They can grow their wealth over time without having to rely on constant labor. Employees have less control over their workplaces. They depend on their jobs for financial stability and are often at risk of losing their income if their job is cut or the company faces difficulties. This shows how ownership of wealth leads to greater influence and security, white employees often have to deal with more uncertainty in their financial lives.

Labor is what gives value to all goods and products. It means people’s work to create something is the true measure of its worth. While we use money to buy things, the price in money is just a way to make trading easier. The actual value of an item comes from the amount of labor needed to produce it, not from the money we pay for it. Labor is called the “real price” because it involves the effort, time, and skill people use to make something. Money, on the other hand is the “nominal price,” or just a label that represents value but doesn’t show the true worth. This highlights that everything in the economy ultimately depends on the work people do. Even though we see prices in money, its really the labor behind the goods that makes them valuable. Without labor there would be no products to buy or sell.

In my view, class is not an identity, but rather a position based on wealth and resources. Class refers to whether someone is rich, poor, or somewhere in between and is often identified by income, job, education, or ownership of assets. However, it doesn’t define who someone truly is. Identity is about personal experiences, beliefs, values, and cultural things that make us unique as individuals. Reducing someone to their class ignores their individuality and personality, and it overlooks the factors that shape a person’s identity.

The phrase “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” means that the different social classes rely on each other in specific ways to maintain the overall system. In a class-based society, the wealthy or owning class depends on the labor and work of the lower classes to generate their wealth. While the working class depends on the owning class for jobs, wages, and the means to survive. An example of this can be seen in large corporations. The owners and executives rely on workers to run daily operations, produce goods, and deliver services that make the company profitable. Without employees doing this work, owners wouldn’t be able to generate wealth. Employees depend on these companies to provide them with jobs and income, which they need to support themselves and their families. The workers are tied to the company for their financial wellbeing, while owners are tied to the workers for maintaining and growing their wealth. This mutual dependency helps keep the class structure in place, with each group relying on the other in different ways, though often unequally.

Discussion Board 4.2

  1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.
    Reading 4.3 distinguishes between owners and employees based on their relationship to the means of production. Owners, or capitalists, control the resources and businesses that generate profit, while employees, or workers, sell their labor to survive. For example, the owner of a factory profits from the production of goods, while the factory worker earns wages by performing tasks to create those goods. The two groups have different interests, with owners focused on maximizing profit and employees seeking better wages and conditions.
  2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?
    Adam Smith’s quote “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only.” highlights that labor is the fundamental source of value in society. It suggests that all wealth is derived from the effort of labor, and the goods we buy or consume are essentially the result of human work. Smith emphasizes the idea that labor is the real price of everything—meaning that it’s not just about the monetary cost, but the amount of human effort and time invested in producing a good or service that gives it value.
  3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?
    In Reading 4.4, the main idea is that class is not just a label or a personal trait like race or gender. Instead, class is about one’s role in the economy, based on whether they own production means (like factories) or work for someone who does. This position in the economy influences their opportunities and power, making class more about economic roles and less about personal identity.
  4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?
    In Reading 4.4, the argument about “class structures being built around a close form of dependency” refers to how workers depend on capitalists for jobs, while capitalists depend on workers to generate profits. This relationship is essential in capitalist society, as both groups rely on each other, but the power dynamics are unequal. For example, factory workers rely on their employer for wages to survive, while the employer needs the workers to produce goods that bring in profits. This creates a constant push and pull between the two groups.

DB 4.2 Marvin Alexis

  1. The reading makes a few distinctions between owners and employees. One of those distinctions is that owners have the capital to have employees in the first place. The employees work for wages and salaries while the owners which are normally capitalist make a profit in surplus value from the labor created by the employees.

2. How I understand the quote given by Adam smith on page 28 is that labor ultimately is what gives whatever is produced by said labor it’s worth and value in the first place. So, in some ways labor is superior to capital because without the labor you would not have the product to make profits and all the surplus value. Also, it does not matter how much capital you have, having capital does not make the product you wish to sell. Having a million dollars in the bank can’t build you a toothpick it’s the labor that is put behind. I agree wholeheartedly

3. I disagree with the notion that class is not an identity. We are defined daily by our social class and have less access to a pleather of resources because of it. People of higher socioeconomic class have been getting away with things people in lower classes would not even dream of committing. Laws and rules only apply to some unfortunately. If you have the wealth and status, you may be able to commit a few felonies and not be incarcerated and maybe I don’t know, run for office and be the leader of the free world. All the while some people are convicted felons and can’t even vote in some states or get a half decent paying job.

4. I understand that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” but understanding that employees need wages and salaries and owners need to make a profit to keep on being rich. The construction company that got the big contract from the city to build these streets and roads we occupy every day, need the construction workers to build those streets and roads so they can secure profit. All the while the construction workers are dependent on the employer securing that contract so they can secure their wages to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads.

Juan Carlos Rodriguez- 4.2

  1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.

    in the reading 4.3 there’s clear difference between owner and employee, for example owners control production and labor meaning the ‘goods’ (or product) and those who sell the goods (employees) employees have to sell the goods to get their wages

    2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?

      the quote by Adam Smith on page 28 to me seems to indicate that labor is the root towards being rich.

      3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?

        it’s instead system of production. The teachers would act as owners and students as employees teachers create labor, and students do the labor.

        4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?

          Class structure is built on the pendency because students need teachers to learn. They depend on them. They depend on their teachers for their grades and even depend on the teachers for their safety. Teachers depend on students in order to maintain their wages if too many students complain at the teacher is not doing their job properly that teacher could be fired. an example would be the owner of Uber eats depends on its delivery drivers to make deliveries in order to make a profit, and Uber eats drivers depend on their job provided by the owner in order to maintain a wage.

          db

          1. The distinction that the reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees is that owners and employees are placed into 2 different categories. They both are different jobs when it comes to things. Owners have more responsibilities, they own things, they make the rules, they tell their employers what to do. While employed they have to follow instructions and do as they are told to get paid. Owners get paid for having their employees do the labor for their company. 
          2. Adam Smith’s quote on pg. 28 is “The division of labor occasions a proportionate increase of the productive powers of labor,” it shows his beliefs when it comes to labor.
          3. My thoughts of class is not an identity because people in the same social class can have different identities just because they are all in the same class doesn’t mean they are all the same. Everyone is different in their own ways. If everyone was the same there wouldn’t be as many things as different social class groups. So I agree that social class is not an identity 

          Discussion Board 4.2

          1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.
          2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?
          3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?
          4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?