Cristian Mejia- Discussion 4.2

1. The distinction between owners and employees is the sources of income between both parties. The owners generate their income through their investments and ownership of the assets which they make profit. With employees they earn their profit by wages in exchange for labor. The reading show how owners benefit from the economic value produced by employees, highlighting the disparity in income sources and wealth accumulation between these two groups.In “Inequality and New York’s Subway,” an example of owners would be the shareholders or investors who profit from the ownership of the subway system or related infrastructure. These owners make money through their investments, receiving returns in the form of dividends or profits from the operation of the subway system, rather than through direct labor. An example for employees an example would be subway workers. The subway workers employees tend to make their salaries based on their labor which is providing services to operate and maintain the subway system.
2. Adam Smith quotes,“ The division of labor occasions a proportionate increase of the productive powers of labor,”emphasizes the importance of labor in generating wealth and value. The quotes mainly emphasizes smith’s point of view of labor which is creating values and wealth.This emphasizes the notion that labor is the primary factor in creating value, demonstrating its superiority over wealth. Smith essentially contends that labor is the fundamental component that determines the genuine value of commodities.
3. The main argument in the reading is that class should not be considered as an identity, it should be seen as a position in the economic system. The theory emphasizes that class is defined by one’s place in the economic structure how people interact with production, money, and labor rather than personal traits or self-perception. This turns the attention away from individual identity and self-concept and onto structural features of economic systems.
4. The argument “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” it suggest that class relations are determined by complex and interrelated economic and social interactions. Which is suggesting the common difference between the different classes. For example, the public transit system such as New York’s subway system. Subway workers, including operators, maintenance crews, and ticket agents, rely on the transit authority to provide wages and working conditions. The transit authority rely on their workers to continue a smooth working system allowing millions of people to commute to work or school with no issue which is contributing to the economy. This creates mutual dependence because without the workers, the subway system would fail, affecting the entire city’s economy. The workers are depending on the transit systems salary to make a living and to provide for themself. However, the relationship is unequal because the transportation system’s owners or administrators have a greater effect over working conditions and income, while workers have little control over how their labor is utilized or returned.

Discussion Board 4.2 Marissa Ramos

1-Reading 4.3 talks about the difference between owners and workers. It mentions a quote by Adam Smith about work. It also explains what class means when we think of who we are and how classes are connected to each other, giving some examples.

2-Adam Smith wrote about how work and making things are important for creating value in the economy. He said that value comes from the effort put into changing materials into things that people can use, not just from the materials themselves.

3-Reading 4.4 suggests class is a social and economic position determined by one’s relationship to production means and economic roles, rather than a personal or cultural identity. It challenges the notion that class identity is solely about personal choice or cultural affiliation, emphasizing the dynamic and structural impact of economic and social structures.

4-Class structures are based on a close form of dependency, highlighting the interconnected relationships between different classes in the economic system. This dependency highlights the reliance on each other for economic functioning, such as the working class relying on the owning class for employment and wages, and the owning class relying on the working class for labor and production

Suhaila Hssayane – Discussion 4.2

  1. The text distinguishes between owners and employees based on their sources of income and their roles in the economy. Owners are individuals who possess significant wealth, primarily derived from investments such as stocks, bonds, and property. For example, a wealthy stockholder in a large corporation would be considered an owner. Employees are individuals who earn their living through wages or salaries by working for someone else. An example of an employee might be a factory worker or a corporate manager who receives a salary.
  2. Adam Smith’s quote suggests that labor has more value in the economy than money. The labor behind a product determines its true value in society because while money can fluctuate in value, the actual work done to create goods remains a constant standard for measuring their worth.
  3. Heidman emphasizes that class is a relational and structural concept that influences access to resources, opportunities, and power rather than the common notion that social class is merely a label individuals adopt. It’s about how economic factors shape experiences and realities, rather than a mere self-identification based on income or occupation. I do agree with this point. Social class is primarily based on economic factors surrounding ones life rather than where they feel like they socially belong.
  4. The phrase “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” refers to the intricate ways in which different classes rely on one another within the economy. For instance, the working class depends on the owning class for employment, while the owning class relies on the labor of the working class to generate profits. A clear example of this dependency can be seen in the relationship between factory workers and corporate owners. Factory workers provide the labor necessary for production, while owners provide the jobs and the means of production.

Evelyn Romero social class

  1. Owning Class would be the ones living off mostly investments , stocks , bonds , property income etc . Employees live off wages , salaries , fees etc . For example An owner would be considered Magic Johnson which he owns a movie theater , and the employees would be the people that work for him in his Theater.
  2. Adam Smith, one of the founding theorists of capitalism, noted in 1776 that “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared
  3. My thoughts on the reading are , liberals would say class is an identity , and how class is more about interests and actions I dont agree . I do believe that class isn’t an identity. race and gender is how you can I identify someone for example a line up at a police station , for you to identify someone would have to be how the look , gender , race not according to your income and how much stock and bonds the person has to identify .
  4. Close form dependency to my understanding would be how a “worker ” have to be dependent on the employers for jobs to live on wages .

Kunsang Chodon – Discussion Board 4.2

1. What is the distinction that Reading 4.3 makes between owners and employees? Give an example of each.

      Owners: People who have money, and property, and make money from investments. They don’t necessarily do the work themselves. Example: A person who owns a chain of hotels and earns money from the rent paid by guests.

      Employees: People who work for a living and are paid wages or salaries. They perform the work needed to produce goods or services. Example: A hotel worker who cleans rooms and manages bookings.

      2. How do you understand the quote by Adam Smith on pg. 28? What is it saying about labor?

        Adam Smith said that the true value of things is based on the labor that goes into making them, not just the price you pay for them. It means that labor is what truly determines the worth of a product, and money is just a way to measure that value.

        3. What are your thoughts on the main argument of Reading 4.4 that class is NOT an identity?

          The main argument is that your social class (like being working class or middle class) isn’t just about who you are or how you see yourself. It’s more about your role in the economy and how you fit into the system of work and wealth.

          4. How do you understand the argument Reading 4.4. makes when stating that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency”? What is this close form of dependency, and can you think of an example?

            This means that people in different social classes rely on each other in specific ways. For example, workers depend on their employers for jobs and wages, while employers depend on workers to run their businesses and make profits. This mutual dependence shapes class structures.

            Ildri Pengu-Discussion 4.2

            The difference between owners and employees is in the relationship of the business and the responsibilities. The owner owns the company which means they have investment risks and they have the power to make decisions about the company. While the employees are hired by the company to perform specific tasks for the company to make money when he does this they are also earning money from the company Employees do not have any power to make changes on the comapny. For example a company like Apple has investors who own a huge portion of the comapny they make decisons about the company then you have the workers who make the phones they have no power in the company at all other then making the phones.

            Adam Smith’s quote”The division of labor occasions a proportionate increase or the productive powers of labor,” encapsulates his belief in the power of specialized labor to drive productivity and economic prosperity.

            The classes should not be considered an identity or a challenge belief. IT distinguishes class as a social position from a personal or group sense of self and suggests that understanding class as a structural phenomenon allows for more effective political mobilization. People argue that class interacts significantly with other aspects of identity. In reading 4.4 it is argued that class structures are based on a “close form of dependency” which refers to the intrinsic reliance between different classes.

            Regina Welbeck – Understanding Social Class

            1.

            Owners, often known as capitalists, are people or organizations that own the means of production, which include companies, factories, raw materials, and necessary machinery. These capitalists control a large portion of these priceless assets and deciding how best to use and distribute them in the market. Owners usually do not participate actively in the hands-on production of goods or services, but they do profit handsomely from the labor their employees contribute. Their primary sources of income and wealth are investments and ownership stakes in companies, giving them significant control over a range of business-related activities.

            One well-known example of a capitalist is a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) who owns a sizable portion of a business. Due to their ownership share, this person not only controls the business’s operations but also gains financially from its success. Another example of a capitalist is a small-business owner or the owner of a nearby factory or retail store. This factory owner has control over the manufacturing process and the earnings that emerge from it, all the while profiting from the things that the people in that facility make and ultimately enjoying the fruits of their labor.

            Workers, or employees as they are more often called, are people who exchange their labor for owners’ income or compensation. They do not own the means of production and usually do not get the profits made by the company, in contrast to capitalists. Their income is derived solely from their labor, not from investments or ownership stakes. As a result, decisions about working conditions, responsibilities, and compensation are frequently decided by owners or managers without consulting the employees.

            Consider a factory worker who assembles goods for an hourly rate, for example. This employee lacks decision-making power within the company and has no ownership interest in the plant. Their financial status is directly impacted by the number of hours they work and the pay that is outlined in their employment contract. Their job is to do particular duties as directed by their managers or supervisors.

            2.        

            The insightful words of Adam Smith highlight the fact that labor is the primary indicator of a good or service’s actual value in the market. He states that while money offers an easy and useful way to express value—what is commonly called the “nominal price”—the true and inherent value of any good is primarily determined by the labor required to produce it. In essence, it is the deliberate work and expertise required to turn raw materials—like a tree, for example—into priceless products like paper or exquisitely made furniture.

            Smith argues that since it takes a lot of human labor to transform raw materials into completed goods that can be sold to customers, labor is what gives commodities their intrinsic value. He also stresses how labor is essential at every level of production, from the early phases of harvesting to the complex processes of manufacture and, finally, distribution. It would just not be able to create goods without this necessary component.

            This definition suggests that work is, in fact, the foundation of any successful economy on a far larger scale. Commodities’ worth would go unrealized and unacknowledged without it since they wouldn’t be accessible in a commercial and useful form. This perspective on labor brings up important conversations concerning economic relationships, such as the significant value that employees add to the goods, they assist in producing and how this value is eventually distributed throughout society’s sectors.

            In analyzing Smith’s perspective, we are urged to think on the crucial role of labor in molding not just goods but also the very fabric of economic exchanges and the social structures that result from them. Given that labor is a fundamental component of any economy, it is imperative that workers receive just compensation and treatment for their efforts, which are what spur productivity and creativity.

            3.

            The claim made in Reading 4.4 that class is not an identity refutes the widespread belief that class can be discussed in identity politics in the same way that race or gender can. This viewpoint is interesting because it highlights how class is structural, not a personal identity like color or gender, which is fundamentally different. While social standing and personal experiences are frequently determined by race and gender, class is primarily determined by one’s place in the economic system of production. Rather than being a fundamental characteristic or identity, class is about a person’s material relationship to income, labor, and capital.

            Class is a social relationship that is dynamic and influenced by economic pressures, in contrast to identities based on race or gender, which are determined by birth. As a result, it becomes less of a set “identity” and more of a place within a bigger exploitative structure. Workers and capitalists have conflicting interests because of their respective economic positions; they are not just two separate identities. When class is viewed structurally, it highlights the ways in which capitalism systematically separates people into groups with different economic interests and the ways in which these divisions affect those groups’ access to power and resources.

            Having said that, class has a significant impact on how individuals see and manage their lives even though it may not be an identity in the conventional sense. When class, race, gender, and other identities come together, oppression of marginalized people is exacerbated. For instance, a Black woman working in a low-paying job faces discrimination on the basis of both race and gender, but her status makes her more susceptible to financial exploitation. While understanding how it interacts with other types of oppression, class is better understood as a structural force rather than an identity, helping to clarify its position in larger systems of inequality.

            4. 

            My understanding about the arguments made in Reading 4.4 that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” is that there is a fundamental bond that exists between social classes within of an economy. The interdependence of the working class and the owning class is what defines this reliance. Though both classes are dependent on one another, there is an imbalance in the way that they rely on one another, with one class having greater power and influence over resources, output, and working conditions. The tight knit but unequal relationship that upholds class systems is defined by this imbalance.

            The interdependent link between classes, whereby one class economic survival depends on the labor or resources owned by another, is highlighted by the “close form of dependency” discussed in Reading 4.4. The working class, for example, depends on the owning class for jobs and pay in order to survive in a capitalist society. Workers produce goods and services with the help of owners, who in turn pay them wages in appreciation for their labor. Because they lack autonomous resources like land or capital, workers cannot exist without access to these salaries.

            On the other hand, in order to make money, the owning class depends on the working class. Owners are unable to make money, expand their enterprises, or sell items without workers to create them. As a result, there exists a close link between the owning class and the working class due to their mutual need.

            An example of this “close form of dependency” can be seen in the gig economy, which includes companies like Uber, DoorDash, and freelance platforms. These platforms are essential for gig workers to locate employment and make money. Without access to these platforms, a lot of workers would have trouble finding work, especially in places where traditional occupations are hard to come by. A vital source of income that enables many people to satisfy their basic requirements is gig employment. Though these businesses employ gig workers, they also depend on the availability of inexpensive, on-demand labor to deliver services to clients. Businesses like Uber or DoorDash could not make money if they did not have employees to drive cars, deliver meals, or perform other activities.

            In conclusion, the arguments in Reading 4.4 that “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” highlights the essential bond that exists between the various classes within an economy.

            Labor & Capital – Aniyah Kitson

            1. The distinction between owners and employees are wages and support. Owners make profit from “behind the scenes”, they use their employees to do the work for them while giving workers a quarter of their salary, this is how owners make money and remain in business. Employees are reliant on the owners of corporation. Without employee’s labor there would be no profit, vice versa, without owners there would be no income. Employees have no say over an owner’s strategy, leaving them with whatever directions an owner/ manager may give them, owners control strategy, but give litttle to no labor.
            2. I believe what Adam smith stated was, the labor of employees doesn’t reflect on the product, the real mone is how much effort and skill a laborer puts within a product. The true value doesn’t reflect on labor, but instead reflects on the demand of a product, as well as market conditions.
            3. While we shouldn’t consider class an identity, it is. Reason being those political, economic and social factors all influence class, by which we identify by those things every day. We get put in categories that identify us within itself. While not all the time, most of the time we get identified by occupation, education, where we reside, and even ethnicity. Class structure determines our power in society. No corporation? less profit, lower class. Capitalist? inflated profit, while enduring a higher social status.
            4. Class structures are based off a close form of dependency. Dependency ensures some form of profit within a capitalist or laborer. For example, capitalist depend on workers to reoccurring profit, and workers depend on owners? corporations for a steady income.

            Kinsey Martyn – Discussion Board 4.2

            1. The main distinction between owners and employees according to the reading 4.3 is that owners are primarily those who live off investments. For example, those with stocks, bonds, rent, and those with other forms of primary income. An example of an owner in this case would be a person who is wealthy, mainly obtaining their money through dividends without working for them. In contrast, the employees are individuals that live off wages, salaries, etc, from their own labor. An example of an employee would be an office worker who earns their wage by working under another supervisor or company manager overseeing other employees to complete similar tasks. The difference is based on how owners acquire wealth by benefiting from the labor of others while the employee earns their income by working themselves. 

            2. The quote by Adam Smith states, “labor … is alone the ultimate and real standard by which the value of all commodities can at all times and places be estimated and compared. It is their real price; money is their nominal price only.” Within this quote it displays the idea that the value of products is perceived by the amount of labor put into that specific task. Even after that quote the sentence afterwards states, “What transforms a tree into a profitable commodity such as paper or furniture is the labor that goes into harvesting the timber, cutting the lumber, and manufacturing, shipping, advertising, and selling the finished product—…” It provides a perspective about the actual work, effort, and time that went into creating something of value. While the monetary value is representative of the value of said product only being used as a source of exchange. The quote suggests that the use of money itself to show value isn’t necessarily representative of the product itself, but of the labor that goes into it. 

            3. The argument about class politics not being an identity, but rather as a structure of power was interesting to see being discussed. Heideman displays that socialists do not deny that class can form an identity, it is distinct from other identities because it is foundational to the power structures that shape society. This structural relationship gives class a special status in socialist thought, making it central to addressing not only class oppression but also other forms of inequality. This structural perspective emphasizes how class shapes people’s conditions, actions, and interests, which are inherently different from race or gender identities. Class conjures exploitation and dependence, where capitalists rely on workers for profit, and workers depend on capitalists for jobs.

            4. In reading 4.4 in regards to the statement, “class structures are built around a close form of dependency” is referring to the relationship between the capitalists and workers and how they are dependent on each other. This is structural because of the fact that capitalists are relying on the workers to make profit while the workers are dependent on the capitalists to provide wages for their jobs. The capitalists want to maximize their profits for as little loss as possible and this philosophy causes a detriment to their workers through terrible work conditions and well-being being significantly reduced in the workplace. An example of this can be people who work in factories working in assembly lines, completing monotonous work. For instance, Apple factory workers are displayed to have unfavorable working conditions in their production facilities. This is particularly in overseas factories where numerous reports of consistently long hours, low wages, and low recreation times. These workers are extremely beneficial to the company as they can produce their products at an accelerated rate and for next to nothing in terms of wages. These workers are inherently trapped in these conditions for economic necessity as they need these wages to survive. This displays the direct imbalance between the workers, and the capitalist’s need for more profit.