In Oedipus the King, the Chorus functions as the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes. The Odes, sung by the chorus, also exemplify one of Aristotle’s criteria for great tragic theatre: “language enhanced by varying beauties.” Select one passage (You do not have to discuss the entire ode) sung by the Chorus and write a 150-word post in which you analyze the meaning of the passage and give examples of some of the beautiful language employed. Include the line numbers for us.
Do not address a passage that has already been discussed by another student.
Please address comments to others by name so we can all follow along.
41 thoughts on “Week 2 Discussion”
The final Ode of Oedipus the King, as sung by the Chorus, serves as a final poetic commentary on the action. It briefly expresses the despair and sadness that is the final outcome to our tragedy. The Chorus begins by asking the audience to look upon pathetic Oedipus, who was once a man of glory and respect, a man who outsmarted the Sphinx and saved Thebes. We also see some beautiful wordplay in the alliteration at the end of “Him who knew the famous riddles and was a man most masterful” (Sophocles).
As the passage progresses, we are reminded that Oedipus was once envied, but has now been taken by the waves of a very dark fate. “see him now and see the breakers of misfortune swallow him!” (Sophocles).
The final line envelopes a very heartbreaking thought, when the Chorus explains that our final day is an indicator of our happiness here on earth. Even though Oedipus was happy in the beginning of the story, he couldn’t avoid suffering. “Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy till he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain” (Sophocles).
Marc, what a beautiful response to the post. The passage you have chosen is extremely poignant. Even readers who may have grown to see Oedipus as deeply flawed can’t help but be moved by the words of the Chorus in the ode. The specific phrasing you highlight is very powerful and yes, beautiful. The passage also underscores a central theme of the play, which is that no one in this life can avoid suffering and that much of it is out of human control. No one can claim a life of pure happiness until he is on his deathbed and can say in truth that he has not suffered. It also suggests that we not look with envy at the rich and powerful around us because, in the end, they too are part of same human condition as the lowliest citizen.
Hello Marc!
Great point of view! The final line is heartbreaking indeed. He was happy at first, but we see that he is in pain now. Meaning that happiness is not a constant thing. “Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy till he has passed the final limit of his life secure from pain” (Sophocles).
As Chorus represent the voice of mass, it “explains that our final day is an indicator of our happiness here on earth” teaching simple people of Greece so.
Good job!
Sincerely, Lizaveta!
The chorus in the play represent the middlemen between the stage and the audience. Because the Greek audience is moistly simple people, the chorus makes the dramatic world easier to understand for simple people. Usually, chorus suggest us what has to happen next by the feelings on their masks.
Let’s look at the one of the passages by chorus:
“May I die
772 without God’s blessing, without friends’ help, if I had any such
thought. But my spirit is broken by my unhappiness for my
wasting country; and this would but add troubles 775 amongst ourselves to the other troubles.”
I love this passage. It shows the beauty of the language of Tragedy. “May I die”, “My spirit is broken”, “My unhappiness”, “My wasting country”- all these phrases add negative and sad emotions on us, listeners, to feel all the dramatic, tragic spirit of the play.
As the Chorus functions as the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes, the meaning of the passage: the citizens of Thebes are humble people ready to accept any kind of honors. They give their fate to king Oedipus.
Hi lizaveta,
I also like the phrases you chose very much. Your insights on this part are very profound and gave me a new understanding of this phrases. When I was reading the phrase you chose, I didn’t really understand the meaning, but when I read your analysis, I felt a sudden realization. This is what the author wanted to express. The part you selected is very beautiful, thank you for your analysis of this phrase . Great work!
The chorus in Oedipus the King reacted to the events as they occurred in a fair and erratic way. The chorus was the messenger between the audience and the theater, they also had an individuality and were crucial to the action. They helped understand the subliminal messages transmitted throughout the play. They conveyed messages to the audience of utter despair and misfortune, such as:
CHORUS: “You that live in my
ancestral Thebes, behold this Oedipus, —
Him who knew the famous riddles and was a man most
masterful; 1725 not a citizen who did not look with envy on his
lot— see him now and see the breakers of misfortune
swallow him! Look upon that last day always. Count no mortal happy
till he has passed the final limit of his life secure from
pain.”
In the final Ode the Chorus explains the moral of the story which is, do not envy someone just because you assume that based on their achievements they are indeed fulfilled, and therefore happy. For here you have Oedipus, who was envied for his accomplishments, yet you see him now and all you see is the tragedy of his misfortune, meaning no man can escape his fate. Therefore, it is safe to say that one most wait until the end of that person’s life to judge whether or not that person was truly happy and if their life is still worth envying.
Hello Roselyn!
I love you answer. I am strongly agree that there is a lesson for all of us as you said: “Do not envy someone just because you assume that based on their achievements they are indeed fulfilled, and therefore happy”.
Chorus represent the the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes. We see that his people love them, they trust him, they believe in his pain as much as their own one.
True king cannot be happy gif his people are separate.
Good job!
Sincerely, Lizaveta!
Sorry for misspellings 🙁
Hello Roselyn!
I love your answer. I strongly agree that there is a lesson for all of us as you said: “Do not envy someone just because you assume that based on their achievements they are indeed fulfilled, and therefore happy”.
Chorus represent the the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes. We see that his people loved him, they trusted him, they believed in his pain as much as in their own one.
True king cannot be happy if his people are desperate.
Good job!
Sincerely, Lizaveta!
Hi Lizaveta,
Thanks, this ode by the Chorus was indeed the one that stood out the most to me as it reveals the moral of the story which is, true happiness should be evaluated only after death. It is only until a man’s life has come to an end that judgments about his achievements, and degree of happiness can be emitted, with a fundamental understanding that nothing is eternal and that we are all subject to suffering from misfortunes.
Roselyn, I agree the final ode is very poignant. I asked students to please not use an ode already cited by another student so that we could enlarge the conversation about the role of the Chorus.
My apologies Professor, I did not realize someone had already selected this ode.
Roselyn, it’s okay this time. I know it happens, but please be careful in the future. Thanks!
Hello Roselyn, your reaction to this Ode is very discerning. I think you may have stumbled on one of the most powerful themes in the story. The message that living with integrity leads to a peaceful life, and triumphs over power, riches, fame, and fortune is very powerful. It is an integral reminder for all of us to consider regularly as we strive to achieve greatness in our lives, especially as New Yorkers where we have access to the best of the best of everything, and ambition drives the city. It’s amazing how these historical pieces of writing still can speak to the deepest dilemmas of the human condition more that 2000 years later.
I find the ode subsequent to the scene where Teiresias telling Oedipus his dark omen after Oedipus ordered him to leave beautiful and witty. The first line of the ode says: “Who is the man proclaimed by Delphi’s prophetic rock as the bloody handed murderer, the doer of deeds that none dare name?” (545). It serves as a beautiful repartee to Teiresias’ dark hints, as if proposing the ultimate riddle, harder than Sphinx’s, that even Oedipus, the master of riddles, cannot answer.
Further, the ode continues: “Now is the time for him to run with a stronger foot than Pegasus for the child of Zeus leaps in arms upon him with fire and the lighting bolt, and terribly close on his heels are the Fates that never miss” (550). In Greek mythology, Pegasus is the mighty winged horse that helped Perseus/Bellerophon, son of Zeus to kill monster Chimaera, and later served Zeus by bringing his chariot of thunder and lightning across the sky. The Fates are the three goddesses that represent what we know as fate: Clotho, who spin the thread of life; Lachesis, who allot the length; and Atropos, who cut the thread (symbolizing death). The Greek has a strong belief in set destiny, so in this line, the citizen of Thebes uses the allusion to say that one cannot escape the fate that follows and will do its course as predetermined. In the first line of the ode, the murderer refers to Oedipus who killed his father, but Laius in the first place plotted an evil scheme against Oedipus to twist the fate in his favor, after all, along with Jocasta, they succumb to the shared wretched fate. Greek tragedy is known to convey moral message throughout the narrative to give the audience spiritual cleansing or catharsis experience. I think this line is beautifully crafted in Greek aesthetics to reminds the audience that suffering is an inevitable part in life and that we likely cannot escape from our fate.
Ella, this is a quite terrifying passage, I think, though very beautiful in its dark way. And yes, the ancient Greeks believed that man could not escape what was decreed by the gods. The allusion to Oedipus is intensely powerful: “the doer of deeds that none dare name.”
Ella, I strongly agree with your interpretation of this Ode, I was particularly intrigued by your final thoughts “I think this line is beautifully crafted in Greek aesthetics to remind the audience that suffering is an inevitable part in life and that we likely cannot escape from our fate”. This brings to my mind the idea of generational curses. Clearly Oedipus thought that he could out run such awful tragedy. Perhaps he believed that he was the master of his own destiny and it’s very sad that by trying to escape his horrible fate that lay awaiting him, he unknowingly fulfills it.
Prof. Conway and Sherika,
I do think it’s beautiful in dark way. The narrative seems to mirror our life, where we often must make trade-offs out of necessity, selfish interest, or ignorance, that sometimes may involve other people, although not as tragic as Oedipus’. “the doer of deeds that none dare name” is beautifully worded and alludes to Oedipus and he seems himself perplexed the first time he is confronted with the hints and question. The thought of outrunning the tragedy as Sherika said seems to be reflected in our life too, some accidents happen even though we take precaution or try to minimize the chance. Maybe the tragedy also tells us about the brevity of life and that we’d better appreciate and make the best of it.
Correct version:
I find the ode subsequent to the scene where Teiresias telling Oedipus his dark omen after Oedipus ordered him to leave beautiful and witty. The first line of the ode says: “Who is the man proclaimed by Delphi’s prophetic rock as the bloody handed murderer, the doer of deeds that none dare name?” (545). It serves as a beautiful repartee to Teiresias’ dark hints, as if proposing an ultimate riddle, harder than Sphinx’s, that even Oedipus, the master of riddles, cannot answer.
Further, the ode continues: “Now is the time for him to run with a stronger foot than Pegasus for the child of Zeus leaps in arms upon him with fire and the lighting bolt, and terribly close on his heels are the Fates that never miss” (550). In Greek mythology, Pegasus is the mighty winged horse that helped Perseus, son of Zeus to kill Chimaera, and later serves Zeus by bringing his chariot of thunder and lightning across the sky. The Fates are the three goddesses that represent what we know as fate: Clotho, who spins the thread of life; Lachesis, who allots the length; and Atropos, who cuts the thread (symbolizing death). The Greek has a strong belief in set destiny, so in this line, the citizen of Thebes uses the allusion of even if you can run like Pegasus, you still cannot defeat the Fates, to say that one cannot escape the fate that follows and will do its course as predetermined. In the first line of the ode, the murderer refers to Oedipus who killed his father, but Laius in the first place plotted an evil scheme against Oedipus in the effort to twist the fate in his favor, after all, along with Jocasta, they succumbed to the shared wretched fate. Greek tragedy is known to convey moral message throughout the narrative to give the audience spiritual cleansing or cathartic experience. I think this line is beautifully crafted in Greek aesthetics to remind the audience that suffering is an inevitable part in life and that we likely cannot escape from our fate.
In Oedipus the King, the chorus represented the elders of Thebes which was instrumental in helping the audience to form a deeper and more meaningful connection to the tragedies that were taking place. Oedipus was a man of high statue who was loved by his people, they regarded him as the ‘savior of the city’. A few lines that I found interesting were:
‘One man may pass another in wisdom
but I would never agree
585 with those that find fault with the king
till I should see the word
proved right beyond doubt.’
Here we came to the realization that no one was quick to condemn Oedipus because they held him with a high regard. It also shows a sign of confusion among the people, basically they felt a sense of loyalty despite the dreadful possibility that the king was the murderer. This I found to be very ironic for we know that the elders have very strong religious beliefs, but with the love and adoration they had for Oedipus they were more inclined to believe their king. They were willing to turn a blind eye to the accusation if they weren’t given irrefutable proof.
Sherika It is indeed ironic that the elders who in most causes are religious leaders as you pointed out are willing to turn blind eyes to the the “dreadful possibility that the King was a murder” and this was base on the fact that Oedipus was love and adored, and surprisingly the same Elders are the once whom are enlightened in the Oracles that spoke of the same King Oedipus destiny.
Sherika this is a great choice of passage. I think it is a great choice for anyone examining the idea of steadfast loyalty to a king, religious leader, etc…. and just to take things a bit further, as we move along in the passage the Chorus goes on to say
“For once in visible form the Sphinx came on him and all of us 590 saw his wisdom and in that test he saved the city. So he will not be condemned by my
mind.”
This line further shoes that because their king saved them in the past, that unsurmountable good deed could never be forgotten in their eyes, and therefore their loyalty was rock solid. This is very evident in today’s world, and it is worth stating that just because a leader helps his/her people one day, that doesn’t mean that they won’t make a terrible decision later on, or that they didn’t make a terrible decision in their past. Blind faith is never a good decision when it comes to leaders, and critical thinking should always be employed.
Sherika, I also like the chorus you chose because it is not only worded in a graceful way, but also shows that although the individual has inclination to take side with the King because he once saved the city, there is a sense of objectivity towards the murder case as she/he refuses to believe the word passed by others, that can be untrue or biased, until it can be proven by irrefutable proof as you mentioned. The previous line of the ode says: “Truly Zeus and Apollo are wise and in human things all knowing; but amongst men there is no distinct judgement, between the prophet and me – which of us is right” (580). Together, the ode sounds like saying Zeus and Apollo know all, but prophet and men do not, since Zeus and Apollo do not point out straightforwardly, the judgement should rely on the proof. The play was written a long time ago, we probably refer to the ancient Greek’s or Roman’s principles since this idea of presumption of innocence and impartiality ideal are also reflected in our modern life, where many countries apply the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” and use blindfolded Justitia holding the scales to personify impartiality.
The bridge that connects the common people in the Greek culture of classical tragedies with the Elite and religious leaders are represented by chorus, The first chorus performed in Oedipus The King depicts the religious nature of the Athens’s overlapping with the strong beliefs in prophecies or oracle set the foundation for the story.
King Oedipus of Thebes ruled by fate and think of himself to be very intelligent but he is also short tempered and impetuous, his this fate is rooted in oracles which said he would kill his father and married his mother, trouble by this Oedipus try to fine other explanations or to blame others, but the fate that he believes in allows him to keep searching for the truth.
” May destiny ever find me pious in word and deed 995 prescribe by laws that live on high: laws begotten in the clear air of heaven, whose only father is Olympus; no mortal nature brought them to birth, no forgetfulness shall lull them to sleep; 1000 for God is great in them and grows not old”.
Oedipus fate was per determined, he try to avoid it, to run away from it, but all his life long action only leads him to it, all his action and knowledge and wealth were intertwined with his destiny. Now he has come to hate himself ” what can I see to love? 1525 What greetings can touch my ears with Joy?” “Take me away, my friends, the greatly miserable, the most accursed, whom God too hates above all men on earth!” As he blame himself he blames others for his existence ” Curse on the man who took the cruel bonds from off my legs, as I lay in the fields 1535 no kindly service Had I died then I would not be so burdensome to friends”.(Chorus) ” I, too, could wished it had been so” here we see the chorus reflecting the view of the audience in a classic Greek style, in the same breath Oedipus the King continues his self assessment and expressions of disappointments, “Then I would not have come 1540 to kill my Father and marry my Mother infamously . Now I am Godless and a child of impurity, begetter in the same seed that created my wretched self. If there is any ill worse that is the lot of Oedipus”.
Oedipus search for himself was rooted in his faith or believe in the oracle led him to discover who he was, he wanted to know his place in the universe his discovery was the painful truth of who is he and what it means to be human and the consequences of our actions .Oedipus action then of killing his Father requires that he abdicate the throne abandon his family and lose his sight, his blindness became ironic as it when he lost his sight he gain insight and full understanding that fate and destiny are inseparable.
Conroy, yes, the Chorus speaks what the viewer/reader is feeling. In the first passage you cite, they express a somewhat worried wish that they will always keep their faith in the gods. This is after Jocasta suggests that prophecy was proven wrong. The people fear a loss of faith and an arrogance in their mortal leaders, and part of this faith includes firm belief in the prophecies they believe come from the gods.
Strophe:
“If a man walks with haughtiness
1010 of hand or word and gives no heed
to Justice and the shrines of Gods despises—may an evil doom
smite him for hiss ill-starred pride of heart! —”
Haughtiness is significant because if one is arrogant one is not seen as righteous in the eyes of God. Strophe implies that if we walk around with arrogance and pay no respect or attention to the Justice of God then he hopes they will be punished. Heed is also significant because Strophe is using heed to point out how important it is to listen to God. Therefore, humility is central, to this passage and life, according to Strophe. If you are not humble, i.e., immoral, then you are without God. If one is without God one is not living a righteous life and therefore is doomed. In sum, one must follow God, but, more importantly, focus on your way of life.
Eliany, this is a very interesting passage. You are so right about the general implications. How does the passage work in the context of the play?
I think it can also relates to the Oedipus father in blood. the king was ruthless, and did so many unspeakable things . he was also proud of his power and share this kind of jealous around other kingdoms. as the king continues to create negative outcomes throughout the story, the kingdom was curse itself by following their king , for not justifying the kingdoms actions. should we consider Oedipus to be arrogant for wanting to know the truth of his birth, following the prophecy unconsciously and to not be responsible of his fate or to not feel guilty of his arrogance ?
Santiago, I do not know what this post is. Are you responding to another student?
Deyli Moran
In Oedipus the King, the Chorus functions as being the voice of telling an important event that had happened. Oedipus is well respected by everyone in the town of Thebes and the chorus has a connection within the audience and is able to make them comprehend the events. A line i found interesting by the Chorus was
Chorus: “As you have held me to my oath, I speak: I neither killed the king nor can declare
the killer; but since Phoebus set the quest
it is his part to tell who the man is.”
What this implies is it is up to Phoebus the God of Apollo to determine whether to identify who killed Oedipus’ father out to the public. The dramatic irony is the fact that the killer is in front of all those people in Thebes they go out their way to go after the killer when the killer is himself.
Rui Hou
My favorite sung by the chorus is begin at 195 to 203. This paragraph uses a very psychedelic description to describe disaster and death. When reading this chorus, I was deeply attracted because the feeling was so real, as if I had also entered the story. Looking at the scene in front of was heartbreaking.
One of the most beautiful sentence is this sentence, “You may see them one with another, like birds swift on the wing, quicker than fire unmastered, speeding away to the coast of the Western God” This sentence describes the death . Death, although in people’s perception, death represents fear and the unknown， but in this chorus ,it is full of energy , which makes people respect the passing of life. After reading this passage, people will start thinking about the meaning of life, what does death mean, and where will we go when I leave this world?
Rui, beautiful and ghastly phrases!
Hi Rui Hou, I really appreciate your interpretation of this verse. I think you extracted a very deep sentiment from the words which are so rich in poetry. My favorite aspect of reading literature is the questions the author can get us to ask ourselves. I believe this relates to the purging of negative emotions and the cathartic effect the playwright wanted us to experience as the audience from watching a tragedy.
In Oedipus the king, the chorus uses symbolic gestures and their own tone of voice to honor and perform the music that they sang. Reflecting the significant dilemmas and memories of Oedipus. The well-known king of Thebes and his important role in the story that drives chorus to debate on the controversial view on his life and the believes about gods and their will to protect the morals of the kingdom and his people. I found interest in the passage
Chorus
strophe
“If I am a prophet and wise of heart you shall not fail, Cithaeron, 1245 by the limitless sky, you shall not!— to know at tomorrow’s full moon that Oedipus honors you, as native to him and mother and nurse at once; and that you are honored in dancing by us, as finding favor in sight of our king.”
I found very delightful this beautiful piece of writing since the dilemmas in the stories, they sort up to give us this sense of karma. Gods are the will of salvation. It is a fact that sometimes not knowing everything could be the best thing to follow. There might be a paradox, a constant number of possibilities to happen. This passage by chorus reveals to us how ungraceful humans are when the king as a sinner, raped another king’s son and took him as a slave to create evil out of his selfishness. Power can also as to humiliate as being proud but honest and faithful in your interest. It was the prophecy that set forward the evil and the good. the pride and the faith that gods bestow to the kingdom and his kings and queens, to find prosperity. Oedipus was the descendant of Louis whose father was greed and ruthless and as a result, he sent he wanted his son’s life to end. However, he was sent by the gods to unleash the curse that his father set upon his family. It was a difficult choice to kill someone for the best of the people without justifying the actions of the kingdom. This passage demonstrates the gods will most likely choose an outsider person whose life has born with a good heart and determination to reveal the truth and the morals that a worthy person to rule over the kingdom should have. There are many possibilities and realities that this passage conveys as the king’s son wanted to avoid the dire events of his prophecy due to his innocence and good heart. The story itself shows a very melancholic reality.
Hello Santiago,
I like your response very much I actually didn’t take the passage in that way I thought it was an argument amongst all the main characters on how they trusted one another much made it very confusing for Chorus to discuss in how he views the people around him.
I liked your Idea of how he felt about the gods and how made him feel during the whole passage, I actually agree with you on how it affected Oedipus and Chorus in different ways makes the passage come together as well.
In the Oedipus the king, the chorus functions as the collective voice of the citizens of Thebes. The Oedipus, sung a very caring and concerning tone towards the people and the Priest also. Oedipus is someone everybody looks up to like a good in the passage it states, “I did not think it fit that I should hear of this from messengers but came myself Oedipus whom all men call the great.” This shows that they take Oedipus has much has a god and treat him as if he was one.
The sung by the Chorus plays his role as a person has different motives and different ways of dealing with the king and how to deal with gods have well. Chorus’s job is to be provocative and figure what do about Teiresias and what the prophecy says that came from the Prophet. What they are trying to find out who has killed King Laius and feel that Prophet should have an answer on how he was killed and figuring out how to deal with the situation. Teiresias is the Prophet and King Oedipus doesn’t seem to trust that much.
“You’d rob us of this your gift of prophecy? You talk as one who had no care for law nor love for Thebes who reared you”
I will try my best to interpret what the author is saying but im not very good. To start off, im going to begin my interpretation by stating that I think that the genre of the reading is mystery with an emphasis on irony. When I say an emphasis on irony, the primary message I get from the writing is that Oedipus has made a lot of claims making himself seem like a good guy however, he is beyond despicable. Not only is he the person that killed king Laius, but he tells everybody that he will find the murderer and punish him including the king’s son. He states, “on these accounts I, as for my own father, will fight this fight, and follow out every clue, seeking to seize the author of his murderer. “ The sad thing is that when it comes to secrets, they are always eventually revealed. So Oedipus is pretty much asking for someone to find out what he did and give him what he deserves.
John, the prompt for this week asks students to choose a passage from one of the odes sung by the chorus and discuss its meaning and the beauty of its language.
The figure of speech used in line 1015 “And will not hold from impiety
and his fingers itch for untouchable things,” expresses the Chorus’ conviction to respect the God’s and abstain from pride and sin.
The poetic alliteration used in the following verse is an example of the “language enhanced by varying beauties” that Aristotle referred to as being a criteria for great tragic theatre, “…what man shall contrive to shield his soul from the shafts of the God?” (1015). This verse from the Chorus is a response to Oedipus finally realizing that the prophecy spoken over his life may actually be true, even though his pride kept him believing he could outsmart fate.
“When such deeds are held in honor, why should I honor the Gods in the dance?” (1020) The Chorus are questioning why they should continue to be devout in their worship if dishonorable deeds and actions are going unpunished and are even esteemed.