Category Archives: Discussion 3

Discussion 3

Natasha Luciano

Beyond The Gender Bianary is relatable. As I was reading, I could relate to Alok so much. The feeling they get when walking down the street and someone has the nerve to comment on your body and what you are wearing, I always get the urge to yell “nobody asked for your opinion!” Alok writes in a way where I can see their experiences because I too have been in uncomfortable situations. I say only the girls, the gays, and the theys understand what it is like to be harassed walking down a street minding your business. I was not surprised at all when I read about how the government is making laws to not protect them, that it is certainly a state of emergency because they are being discriminated against, so it leads to homelessness. The fact that they do not want to let transgender athletes play any sports. Imagine someone telling you to stop being yourself and stop doing the things you love because it makes them uncomfortable, or they do not want to understand or even relate to you somehow. The you choose to live like that is quite common and ignorant. Why can’t we just be and live life without people wanting to control us and squeeze us into a box? Why does anyone have control over how we choose to live our lives! Alok said something that will forever stick with me, they said how are you supposed to believe the harm that you experience when people do not even believe that you exist. The fact that we live in a world where people really have the audacity to scrutinize someone because they feel that entitled. 

Ashanti Prendergast Discussion 3

I think moving beyond the gender binary means recognizing the harmful gender norms that have been established and choosing to be yourself in every way possible. Alok says, “We wear pantsuits even when it’s blisteringly hot outside, even though skirts would be far more practical.” Alok also mentions how many of us worry that liking certain things will make us look feminine or masculine. Gender norms have prevented us from being our true selves. People are afraid of being themselves because they fear being judged. So I think the outcome of all this is that we often see people projecting their inability to be themselves onto children and those around them.

If I am being honest, I don’t think I really go against gender norms. Well, not anymore. I remember, as a child, I used to describe my gender as free-spirited. At that time, it meant I could be both. I wanted both characteristics. Men were seen as strong and courageous, and women were seen as beautiful and delicate. I felt like I sat exactly in the middle. I grew up reading a lot about kings and queens, and while queens have contributed so much. Kings had the most power. Kings went to war and made important decisions. I think it was after reading about powerful monarchs that I decided I wanted to be a king rather than a queen for a while. I remember constantly arguing with friends while playing because they said I couldn’t be a king because I was a girl. Things have changed a lot since then. I definitely fit more into gender norms. I found myself wanting to feel and look more feminine after puberty. I’ve gotten into the habit of mostly wearing dresses. I started to wear makeup, and now I carry purses. My younger self would probably be upset with me. But I see nothing wrong with trying something new. In recent years, I’ve read a lot about powerful women who weren’t in the books I read as a kid. For a while, I thought I was weak because I was beginning to like traditional feminine things. But I know now that I can be a strong, powerful woman, even in a dress. I may not go against gender norms in my own life, but I do try to encourage others to be themselves. For example, I come from a traditional Jamaican family and I have a cousin who’s a kid, so naturally he’s curious about everything, including my doll collection. So when I babysit, I let him be himself. We play hand games, and I let him watch “girly shows” and play with my dolls. In my opinion, I feel like in terms of gender expression, the world appears to be much harsher on men. My family allowed me to have my moment of finding myself. But the boys in my family don’t quite have that luxury. Everything is seen as “gay”. Being gay isn’t a bad thing, but to my family it is. There’s the pressure that they can’t cry or they’ll look like girls. I think it all starts at a young age. It’s a cycle of self-hatred being projected onto others because they can’t be themselves.

Clare Kutsko Discussion 3

In this week’s reading, Beyond the Gender Binary by Alok Vaid Manon, Alok not only makes clear their own path with gender, but also gives the readers such a concise break down of how we can all pave a path to move beyond the gender binary. Alok does not miss a beat as they cover the history, rebute all arguments, and paint a picture of what gender expression can be.

For Alok, moving beyond the gender binary is not so much a choice they make, but rather that it’s not an option to live in oppression. It means having the freedom to live and explore life as they need to in order to be authentic, happy, and useful to the world and themself. No one is able to live a happy life when they’re being forced to lie to themselves and the world around them. So the choice they are making, is a choice to be authentic and happy, and as a result they need to move beyond the gender binary because they do not have a place to identify in a binary world. As an activist, Alok has also taken the role of teaching, fighting, and educating everyone for people that do not have space in this binary world. For Alok it is more than just a self expression and discovery, but a mission to dismantle a way of living that does not work for people.

Where I grew up, there was not a lot of discussion around gender identities. We were aware of sexual preferences, but nothing beyond whether someone was homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual. I am a heterosexual female and my pronouns are she/her. So, in those very basic ways I fit into the binary norm. The ways I do not fit into the binary norm did cause a lot of confusion for me, but never enough that I would say I’ve struggled in any sort of way that most people who do not fit into the gender binary do. I was a dancer and spent most of my life in places that offered a lot of freedom to self-expression and identity.

My parents brought me up to be an independent, strong woman. We played sports, did a lot of outdoor activities, I was encouraged to be myself, have opinions, develop my intellect, and love myself the way I look naturally. These virtues do not go along with the traditional and common binary roles and I felt that a lot as a young girl and a woman. Tomboy, independent, strong, opinionated, were always feedback I received from people in not necessarily positive ways. It was always stated as a “unique” or “different” trait. If I ever mentioned anything about struggling with meeting a romantic partner, these traits were brought up. And, other comments I heard often in response were that I needed to put more makeup on or be more “girly” to get a boyfriend.

I had never heard anyone talking about fluidity in gender, or mentioning any idea of there being different ways to be, different people looking for different things. I also never heard anyone mention that you could feel different on the inside than you looked on the outside. That was where I have always had a disconnect. I don’t feel girly, but I look like a feminine woman, and I would often have people seem let down when they had created an idea of who they thought i was and I turned out “different”. Therefor I thought there was something wrong with me. So, as a result I think I accepted that I was different from the binary normative roles with some things and that would just be a challenge for me. Which is an example of how stunting these beliefs are, there is no reason I should have spent my time thinking that about myself.

I have definitely found my own way into shaping myself as a person, accepting and celebrating my authenticity, and learning to allow the nuances of being a full human exist within me, but it was through a different route. I think life could be entirely different if we were offered freedom to become the best people we can be, So, I would say that young people are very lucky now to have this conversation on the table, especially coming from people like Alok.

Giselle Valentine discussion # 3

Alok beyond the gender binary Alok expresses to us  how gender assignments create a specific type of restraint and narrative for how that person should behave and beyond that  idea, what they should  like or wear, and even down to how they express themselves, if they are allowed to cry or allowed to play football and if it does not fall within that bracket then this punishment of nonconformity creates an unbreakable connection between gender and shame. Growing up I had a lot of adults tell me who to be and how to do it. In the reading Alok speaks against these familiar arguments and gives a deeper understanding in gender expression.  For myself I identify and she/her I am a cis- woman who is queer and I dress masculine presenting meaning i shop in the men’s section of stores and pick up heavy things and do things for myself and behave in a way most people would find masculine. People consistently assume that I want to “be a man” or want to transition but the truth is I express my gender differently than what is asked for as a woman. I can wear baggy clothes ,hats  and sneakers and would never wear a dress but I am comfortable defining myself as she/her/they .  In retrospect there are other aspects of myself that I guess can be considered me prescribing to gender norms and falling into binaries. I like to cook all types of food and am extremely maternal. One of my love languages is service so I do things for the people I love. I cannot build anything worth a damn and know nothing about cars. My partner who is more feminine presenting can change her oil and car battery very easily . I believe what it means to move beyond the gender binary is thinking less about how you’re “supposed” to behave and dress and exist and finding out what that means for yourself and not being worried about what that means for other people. Normalizing human emotions and how we express them as long as it isn’t harming anyone or ourselves.  What that meant for me as a child is playing sports and wearing the blue power ranger gloves and big puffer jackets and hating when my mom made me wear dresses with the itchy nets and shiny shoes. I appreciate this type of reading because it challenges systems that we have built our society around and gives different perspectives.

Miranda C Discussion 3

I believe for Alok moving beyond the gender binary means society evolving, into a place where there is no longer fear of change and we allow everyone to identify as they truly feel themselves to be without stipulations or fear. As a result, we would then not let what patriarchal society has said to be normal continue to oppress those who don’t comply with being defined by body parts and societies expectations of gender roles. Alok says “People might tolerate the existence of gender non-conforming people, but tolerance is not the same thing as acceptance”. Tolerating people who identify differently means something totally different than accepting them into society as a constant normality, it shouldn’t be unusual to see someone expressing themselves outside of “societies normalcy”. Moving beyond the gender binary means inclusivity for all without scrutiny. My gender identity goes against the binary norm when it comes to the expectations one might have for a female. I am not soft and dainty as some may expect a female to be. While I do get my nails done and etc . One may say I have a rather aggressive presence and demeanor for a female. I do have feminine qualities about myself but my tone of voice is not soft it is deeper than that of a soft spoken females voice. I also prefer a short haircut rather than having a head full of hair. I follow the gender norms with formfitting clothing as society may expect a woman to. However, I do not wear skirts and heels often only on special occasions. I prefer sneakers and jeans almost always!!

Alexandra Diodonet Discussion 3

What it means to move beyond the gender binary according to Alok means to be free from gender labels and do whatever and wear whatever we want in the street, that is whether a woman wants to wear a suit or a man wants to wear a skirt or a dress. It is to acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with existing outside of the gender binary. There’s always a thing in a society where there are only two genders: Man & Woman, and they need to act a certain gender but since there aren’t other genders like non-binary & gender fluid that aren’t articulated enough society would look at them in an uncomfortable way. This is very upsetting in my opinion because society feels like people cannot be creative in their own way leading to people judging gender non-conformity, on page 28 Alok explains that during his high school there was a bully who bullied him so he can prove that other people that he was normal. He was known to be jealous of how Alok expressed himself without fear. Sometimes it’s sad to know that people have to bully gender non-conformity so that they can be ‘normal’ and they are insecure with their identifies. Alok wants to be in a world where gender doesn’t have to be structured or assigned what you have to act or wear, whereas to break labels and start living a world where everyone can be creative with their gender without being judged.

I feel like my gender identity went against the binary form was growing up with my brother who is a professional wrestling fan I used to be a wrestling fan. Whenever I’m on the phone with my female’s friend, my brother would stop by in my room telling me what happen in either WWE or AEW, and my friends on the phone would have no clue what he’s saying or doing but don’t care about it because they don’t watch wrestling. Since I was little I was all about sports whether it was basketball or soccer I would be the only girl to play soccer. There were times when people thought I was a lesbian because of how I always dressed in jeans and hoodies all the time, but there are times when I dress feminine whenever I do my nails, wear a dress or a skirt. Most of the time my mother would want me to act “like a lady” but sometimes I think that it doesn’t matter if I act feminine or masculine.

Food Zheng Discussion 3

I feel that for Alok and for everyone to go beyond the gender binary, it is to be able to be free, without anyone going on the street criticizing why they are like that or why they dress in a certain way, it is the power to be able to represent themselves. As Alok said, there are only pronouns that are for women, for men and for everyone in general, but there is not a pronoun for each different identity category. So looking at it in a deeper way, this should not be right, since even though it is now in the actuality that I have been seeing how they are focusing on showing a little more support towards anyone with a different identity category. It’s hard for me, and it makes me feel sad that there have always been people who didn’t feel good about themselves, who wanted to be able to explore who they were and feel free. But there wasn’t as much gender expression for them to show off and the people who did it just categorized him as confused or annoyed him in the process. Like what Alok narrated, about how he had always shown his true self and they bothered him for this simple fact, but then the bully contacts him and talks about how he bothered him because he felt repressed and was envious of how Alok could show himself without fear.

My gender identity, I feel that what went against the binary norm would be that sometimes my way of acting was different. I come from growing up with 2 older brothers, for that to feel included towards them I got “masculine” tastes (as classified by society). Since I was little, I liked to play soccer, basketball and even fights with my brothers, my parents did not bother that, rather they tried to join in playing with us too. But when I went to school or told someone else, they told me that those games are not right for a girl like me or they were just surprised that I played those things. Even at this age, I like to play “masculine” video games that in their time many people said things like “Why do you play that if you’re a woman” or “you shouldn’t do that”, but those are and were my tastes. Meanwhile, they fit to the binary norm maybe would be Even when I did those things, I liked and like to dress in a “feminine” way or something like that, in addition to the fact that I feel good with my self and with my gender identity. I know that my experiences have not been like others or are not as strong as others, but it is something that when I grew up, they were a not a good experience in their time, now there is a little more acceptance or even people no longer bother that one girl do “boy” things. I feel that it is good to be able to show who we are, what we like and even how we feel so that we can be part of supporting anyone who does not feel good about their gender identity.

Neil Marshall Discussion 3

I believe that for Alok, moving beyond the binary is to move away from our strictly confined definitions of gender, and away from the policing of gender. As Alok refers to, society tends to assume “that there is one stable definition of manhood or womanhood”, and that frequently these assumptions are treated as gospel and used to subjugate and oppress people who fall outside of those definitions. I believe that Alok means to move into a world where gender is not used as a determining factor in societal expectations, structures, or policy in a way that is exclusionary of anyone. 

It is an interesting task to contemplate my gender identity and the way I conform or don’t, because it makes me recognize how it has not been fixed in the course of my life, and how the points where my identity came into conflict with societal norms have shaped me or how they have developed in the course of my 38 years. Up until probably my early teens I was frequently mistaken as girl. I was late to develop, so I was much smaller than most of the boys my age, I also had softer features and a high pitched voice. I was taunted by my school mates and occasionally my teachers, calling me a girl or gay before I even had any idea of what that was. As such, I began to hate and suppress any part of me that did not conform. I also began to moderate the way I dressed, choosing more “masculine” colors or doing away with color altogether. I was physically talented, and good at a lot of sports, but removed myself from them as much as possible because any shortcoming seemed to reveal my feminine nature and open me up for ridicule. I ran or threw a ball “like a girl” for instance. I was artistically inclined, but refused to participate in any group school arts activity in fear it would reinforce people’s views of me. And when I entered into ballet, I attempted to hide it from my classmates, assuming correctly that it worsen my bullying. My circumstances changed somewhat after I dropped out of high school and continued to my professional ballet career, but I still tried to conform. Despite what people’s suppositions about men in ballet may be, or perhaps because of them, there is a firm desire for men to conform to conventions of masculinity. “Do it like a man” was a frequent critique from both my male and female superiors. So I would say it wasn’t until I retired from ballet that I began to soften some of the restrictions I had place on myself and explore my gender identity and expression more fully.

Time has chiseled away the soft “feminine” features of my childhood, I now wear shorter hair and a beard. I now have my ears pierced, something I had always wanted as a child but eschewed because I was worried it was too feminine. I wear nail polish and occasionally makeup, and probably have more pink in my wardrobe than any other color. What I’ve also found interesting in the past couple of years is how I code switch depending on my environment. During the isolation of the pandemic, rarely encountering people outside of my immediate circle, I began to dress the way I wanted and felt comfortable. Then, last summer I was fortunate to spend the summer in the Pines on Fire Island. In the safety of this gay and queer community, seeing all types of gender expression, I felt comfortable wearing anything, dresses, caftans, enormous jewelry, large dangly earring, short shorts. But immediately upon my return to the city I would feel uncomfortable. I immediately knew that I could not dress in that same way, and that if I were to do so I would garner unwanted attention or feel unsafe. I realized how much of my gender expression is performative for society’s expectations and for self-preservation. How I mold myself to conform, but also the privilege I have in my ability to blend in if I choose, and the adversity that those who can’t must face.

Antione Malave discussion 3

For Alok this means being more then what you may label yourself, more then your preferred sex pronoun and or gender construction. I can agree that We all express and experience our gender in different ways that is what makes us unique. I disagree with Alok saying that there are an infinite number of options outside of either being man or woman. I would have liked to have heard some of those options. I do love Alok’s enthusiasm and charisma about a subject that is near and dear to his or her heart. This goes back to what I previously discussed in my last post where so many people for many reasons want to feel oppressed or have fake outrage and or want to be placed in groups separate from everyone else. Which I understand totally understand but i should not have to take part in what someone’s theoretic belief to make them feel better. My passion is art i am an artist i paint draw, sketch, graffiti etc. My style of drawing and creating figures that i would imagine had no real structure to it , that is until i started fashion design class. The class taught me how to proportion my figures also how to express emotion with body language. I guess that is one way my gender identity goes against binary norms It was a class of 20 students with 2 other students being men . In one way i suppose it “fits the binary norm” is that i love to portray the woman i paint as very goddess like a technique that has been seen for centuries by the masterclass painters that have been men, not saying there were not any woman masterclass painters i am sure if we look we will find some. My question is why does what i like have go against a binary norm? that actually ridiculous even to type. As a man i watched sailor moon as equally as dragon ball z. The discussion seems less about making people aware and more forcing people to care. Your sexual orientation should be personal and how you choose to live your life in whatever power ranger you identify with is your choice and that is my ted talk.

Discussion Prompt #3 | Topics and Instructions

The prompt for this week is:

What does it mean to move beyond the gender binary for Alok? Even for people who identify as cisgender, gender is fluid and complex. We all express and experience our gender in different ways, and for most of us, some aspect of our gender identity goes against the binary norm. In what ways does your gender identity go against the binary norm and in what ways does it fit the binary norm?

Make your post by Wednesday, February 16 at 11:59 pm. You will also want to respond to at least three of your classmates’ posts by Friday, February 18 at 11:59 pm.

Format Requirements

  • Due: Wednesday February 16, 11:59 pm. 
  • Written in complete, well-formed sentences & carefully proofread
  • Engaged with the assigned text by explicitly referring to and/or citing them
  • 400-600 words. Longer, but not shorter, posts are fine. To view your word count, click the info symbol at the top of the post draft!

How to Create the Post

  • 1) Click on the black plus sign in a white circle at the very top of the site (in the black bar) to start the post draft:
  • 2) In the title box, type the title “[FirstName] [LastName] Discussion 3″.
  • 3) In the body of the post, type your response to the prompt.
  • 4) On the right side, choose the post category “Discussion 3.” Your post will not publish without a category. DO NOT TAG THIS WITH ANY OTHER CATEGORY AND DO NOT USE A CATEGORY STICKY.
  • 5) Click the blue Publish button on the top right.

More Help:

  • Here is a video tutorial on how to publish a post.
  • If you want to understand the difference between a post and a comment, see this help document.