Category Archives: Discussion 10

Discussion 10

  • What is meant by the following quote?: “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action.  If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.”
  • What does the Combahee River collective mean by “identity politics”? How do you see this operating in Paris is Burning?
  • What do race and gender have to do with capitalism?

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Jesica Rodriguez – Discussion 10

The following quote “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” I would say that the meaning behind this quote is that black women are victims of oppression in any form. Could be addressing racism in the white women’s movement and the non-hierarchical distribution of power within this group of people. If black women were free, everyone would be free because that would mean all systems of oppression have been destroyed. 

The Combahee River collective mean by “identity politics” is how politics is shaped by people’s identity, in the reading says. “We believe that the most profound and potentially the most radical politics come directly out of our own identity, as opposed to working to end somebody else’s oppression” as well “we realize that the only people who care enough about us to work consistently for our liberation are us”. I can kind of see this operating in Paris is burning in how we see how members of the subculture use positive means of expression rather than violence, although they are ironically targets of discriminatory violence. See the discrimination against colored and trans people. The people in the film are almost being shown as objects. Overall showing how the characters deal with issues such as aids, racism, poverty, violence, and homophobia. 

Race and gender have to do with capitalism in that in some way capitalism is divided up into different social classes. Capitalism is an example of being unfair and classifying people into different categories. That being said, certain races and genders are disadvantaged and do not have the same rights as others. since racial and gender discrimination are all linked to capitalism there would be no capitalism without some type of oppression.

Nadia Jimenez Discussion 10

In The Combahee River Collective Statement, the following quote is stated: “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” The beginning part of the quote is referring to how black women were always looked down upon or put at the bottom of society. They are the most oppressed and don’t have the freedom that they deserve and need. If black women were free then that means the systems of oppression would be destroyed because it is the main reason as to why they haven’t gained their freedom. For black women to retrieve their freedom, a lot of change would have to be made including sexism, racism, discrimination, and equal rights as well.

The term “identity politics” is briefly talked about in The Combahee River Collective Statement. According to the text, identity politics is a very “repugnant, dangerous, threatening, and therefore revolutionary” concept due to the fact that black women are worthy of freedom. Identity politics is focusing on the oppression of black women and forming their own identity instead of working to stop other’s oppression. This is seen in Paris is Burning because even though everyone has their own dreams, morals, and individualities, they are still apart of a big community. The characters want to create freedom for one another as a group but are still fighting oppression at the same time.

Race and gender are directly related to capitalism in the sense that capitalism is divided into different social classes. Capitalism is an example of being unequal and putting individuals at certain levels based on a category. The same way that certain races and genders are underprivileged and don’t have equal rights as others may have. There is inequality within all of the categories of race, genders, sex, labor rights, and capitalism. Racial and gender oppression all coincide with capitalism, therefore, there wouldn’t be capitalism without any form of oppression unfortunately.

Clare Kutsko Discussion 10

The following quotes from The Combahee River Collective statement, “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” What this is saying is that black women are considerably the most oppressed of all, and that is what this statement is saying. There is intersectionality throughout oppression, as we have learned, but black women are touch by them all. You would know that the systems of oppression were broken if black women were free because they are at the bottom, oppressed by all of the systems. There is not one system that has not kept them bound and oppressed. I think the first statement, “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action”, is saying that they have nothing to lose, it would be a revolutionary action for them because their freedom would require total dismantling of capitalism, sexism, racism, and the patriarchy.

In The Combahee River Collective Statement, when they are discussing identity politics they are taking about how the work you do for your own situation that is built around your own identity and the identity of those who identify with you, opposed to working for a cause outside of yourself, is the most powerful work because it creates a politic that is so personal and undeniably authentic. In Paris is burning this is also happening since they are creating the space they’re in for their own personal needs, expression, rights, to create freedom for themselves as a group. It is not for others, it is a movement that is personal.

In this reading Capitalism and the profound affects it has on black women is discussed in relation to the socialist concepts of The Combahee River Collective. Capitalism is directly related to race and gender because it is built around hierarchies, and those who built it and maintain it are the white patriarchal structure that racism and sexism are oppressed by.

I’tanisha Lewis/ Discussion #10

The Collective was basically saying that both the white feminist movement and the Civil Rights movement were not addressing their particular needs as Black women and more specifically, as Black lesbians. The Collective also place an emphasis upon their own relationships to their oppression and how this shaped their identities. The CRC describes oppression as “interlocking” or happening simultaneously, thus creating new measures of oppression and inequality. In other words, Black women could not quantify their oppression only in terms of sexism or racism, or homophobia experienced by black lesbians.

Furthermore, these women built on those observations by continuing to analyze the roots of Black woman’s oppression under capitalism and arguing for the organization of society based on the collective needs of the oppressed. Understanding the particular experience of Black women as compared to white women and Black men, which also created entry points for Black women to engage in politics. In fact, through the term “identity politics,” I believe they are encouraging a politic that focuses upon the direct need to liberate Black women. If more groups took a stance and followed the movement, we would not witness women, queer cultures, and people of color being continuously oppressed and marginalized.

Anna Serbina Discussion 10

The Combahee River Collective describes the nature of Black feminism with the following quote: “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” The first part of it implies their position being on the very bottom, meaning that they were put in the lowest caste of society because of the inferiority of their gender, race, and consequently, social class, which all acted against them simultaneously. The second part of the quote claims that because Black women historically have been subjects to all kinds of such oppressions, they need to fight them all at once to gain freedom. Because of this, the goal of Black feminists becomes very challenging to achieve: the psychological toll and lack of power and resources to rely upon makes it hard to organize a strong movement, leaving Black women with an option to rely on themselves. The Collective defines such an approach as “identity politics,” which evolve from focusing on their own oppression. As they explain, “The most profound and potentially most radical politics come directly out of our own identity, as opposed to working to end somebody else’s oppression.” This belief seems very logical to me — we seek to improve our lives more than someone else’s because it is in our survival nature. No one would fix an issue better than us if it affects us because we know first-hand what it’s like to suffer from it.

This topic is unfolding in Paris is Burning, when we are shown characters with very different individualities and different dreams. Although they are part of one big community that shares the same values, the characters put their interests first a lot of the time to come closer to their dream or to manifest the vision of their life. At the same time, they share the same burden of oppression and through fighting it they become one, employing identity politics as a whole.

Gender and race oppression are directly connected with mechanisms of capitalism, which at its nature imply the existence of privilege and division of people into classes. Hypothetically, capitalism would not exist in a society where everyone is equal, because it thrives on competition. It is a system in which one individual benefits from the work (read: slow suffering) of others, similarly to what stands behind systems of oppression. Based on the experience of my female relatives, who were born in the USSR, it is true. My grandmother worked as an elevator technician, and it was absolutely normal. From their stories I can tell that there was much less apparent sexism in the work environment. We now know, of course, that there were larger, hidden issues in their society, and that oppression certainly existed at all times of USSR’s history. On that note, the relationship between capitalism and sexism/racism isn’t reciprocal. The Collective states: “We are not convinced, however, that a socialist revolution that is not also a feminist and anti-racist revolution will guarantee our liberation.” Capitalism cannot exist without oppression; oppression, on the other hand, can exist without capitalism.

ANTIONE MALAVE-DISCUSSION 10

  • What is meant by the following quote?: “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action.  If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.”
  • What does the Combahee River collective mean by “identity politics”? How do you see this operating in Paris is Burning?
  • What do race and gender have to do with capitalism?

I think that quote means that Black woman as a whole march in everyone’s rallies and marches because that’s how strong they are as a whole. They don’t just fight for one cause that benefits them they fight all causes, and until everyone is freed from under the Foot of the systematic oppression as it were then no one is truly free. Side note the treatment of black woman in America was and continues to be in my opinion disgusting. We can go as far back as when it was documented that Doctors in America would not give pregnant black woman the proper or if any medications during child birth because they did not feel pain as much as everyone else. Or how the fashion of black woman is ghetto or urban until it becomes a trendy fashion show catwalk idea , and then its called brilliant or new age.

Identity politics refers to the connection between social issues such as racial discrimination, homelessness that plague a certain group whether it be female or Gay. Allot of the issues we have been reading about surround particular mistreatments of certain groups are shown within this film. I have actually heard about this film when i was younger and actually love the soundtrack . That is the type of music i would hear in my house growing up. I never even knew house music was popularized in gay clubs i just knew i loved the music and that some of it reminded me of freestyle music which i also love. Identity politics was captured in this film by them as group having this common bond , this gathering of people that are in one way or another dealing with similar nightmarish social issues, childhood trauma, not being excepted for who they are by there family and society.

Race and gender are forever intertwined with politics . In the eyes of politics it enables people to be put into certain social classes i believe. Its your modern day caste system. Which by design exploits the underprivileged. It just so happens that the underprivileged are usually brown people, female , or gay. Ill never forget that reading where the quote basically told us that we are the cogs in the machine and that there really is no big corporate scary devouring beast its only us, we are that machine . If that’s the case then this quote

  • If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.”
  • Should be a no brainer to us since if one is persecuted then we are all persecuted.

    Nasser Ali Discussion #10

    Personally, I think that the quote explores how Black women are victims of oppression in every form that it comes in. Therefore, if Black women were free, then every form of oppression would have to have been nullified. It would mean that all of the people that are oppressed by the same systems that oppress Black women would also be free. The Combahee River Collective explains how identity politics emerges from our individual identities and often creates the most profound and radical politics. This is in juxtaposition with the idea of working to end another person’s oppression. This concept of identity politics is present in many ways in the film Paris is Burning.

    The film features ball competitions, Drag, Vogue, and many individuals of varying and diverse identities. They push to show how the gay and drag subculture can be shed in a new, more positive light. A lot of words are given new meanings to help them accomplish this. The film deeply explores how many of these individuals who are a part of this scene deal with things such as homophobia, racism, AIDS, violence, and poverty. Regarding capitalism and the role that race and gender have with it; capitalism commits itself to economically oppress certain groups of people and groups of certain races and gender. Capitalism is known to exploit labor for private profit and is done so through racial and gender oppression. This results in greater control over the working class.

    Miranda C. Discussion 10

    African Americans are an oppressed people although strides have been made this is still a fact even today. Moreover, women are oppressed simply because they are not looked at or viewed equally you add being a black woman to that and it is equivalent to the saying “bottom of the totem pole”   I believe with the quote ““We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action.  If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression”, she is basically saying if the choice is made to ban together no matter the differences in the issues we find most important- there can be a victory for all in that union, because there is then a chance to attack many different issues. Which could lead to dismantling Multiple different types of oppression attacking the system as a whole is the best choice rather than an individualistic approach allowing the movement to make some real progressive moves.

                I think Combahee is saying “Identity Politics” are issues that we personally identify with and not necessarily the ones of the world which makes the ones outside of personal irrelevant because that is not what we have personally struggled with. I see this in “Paris is Burning”  when they do the ballroom runway there is a sense of importance because they are essentially embodying a role that society would not allow them to peacefully have outside of their community and outside of the ballroom however, that is what they yearn for and feel they can achieve and deserve. Race and gender play a major role in capitalism because there is profit in keeping certain dynamics the same such as the incarceration systems, medications and etc. systems such as these are largely minority based the private investors and owners make their money off of keeping these types of systems in place.  

    Food Zheng – Discussion #10

    The quote from the article “The Combahee River Collective Statement”, “We might use our position at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary action. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” It is more about the fact of how to obtain the complete freedom of any woman, since in itself, all women, regardless of race, color, or any other characteristic, have the right to be free. Being able to obtain the freedom of women means that any woman has to be free, since in her time, there was a fight over women’s suffrage, but many of these women only sought the rights of white women, instead of seeking women’s rights in general. Being able to destroy the system of oppression that exists among women is the true meaning of freedom. Being able to do, want or even dream of anything that the man says ‘the woman does not have the right to do’.

    I feel that it is more about being able to create a change between societies, in The Combahee River Collective, it is more about how to make others see that black women are also necessary rights as is a white woman. It is to be able to let them know that the community of any person of the same race, background or even religion are united for the purpose of being able to be treated as people with their full rights and not as something lower than that. Since, as the article says, no other race/background/religion will fight the battle for you, but it is important to show them the necessary support to reach the goal. I see this method in “Paris is Burning” for the very fact of the golden age, where people who share the same tastes, qualities, or even orientation, came together to be able to be happy and show anyone or even themselves, that they have the same right to do what others do. As we see in the video, where homosexuals, drag queens, or transgender people came together to have their own method of entertainment, which in the video was modeling. Since, at that time, they were not allowed to participate in a modeling contest, they created their own empire in which they could let out their true selves without being afraid of hearing criticism because everyone there was the same, or shared his own passion. Which shows us that even if any person feels that they do not feel like themselves, they will always see a place for them, to be happy and to be able to demonstrate their passion and enjoy with people who truly accept them. What makes me a little sad is the fact that I understand that they feel comfortable with people who share the same passion, but this should not be the case. They should feel comfortable anywhere, whether with similar people or with totally different people, this is the true meaning of what it really is to be free and not be able to express your true self.

    I feel that race and gender have a lot to do with capitalism, due to the very fact that it is not centered on who you are, but rather it is centered on your true work or value. The way I see it, capitalism is more individual, being able to do a business, buy a house or study on your own merits and not because the government takes your things from you to give them to someone who needs it. I see it this way, since I come from a communist country, where it is very common to hear the phrase “take from the rich to give to the poor”. Which in one way can be nice, but in another way it is very unfair, since what happens if the rich man reaches that point because of his work and effort, while the poor man does not want to do anything and just wants to take advantage of this fact. That is why I feel that capitalism does not discriminate, I feel that it is more about minding your own business. However, at the same time, I feel that capitalism on gender and race, can be very discriminatory or at least in the past maybe (since, in the present I feel that they no longer pay attention to this fact, and correct me if I’m wrong, please), because I remember before they wouldn’t let a black person own their property, or someone of any other race buy a house even if they were born in the country. I feel that the capitalism of before was very classifying, where the white will always be the one with the most money and power, while the others only serve to work for him.

    Jessica Tapia Discussion 10

    This week’s reading, ” The Combahee river collective statement,” is about an organization that includes black feminist lesbians. The intersectionality happened because the feminist movement and the civil rights movement didn’t address the concerns of these black feminist lesbians. The quote “We might use our positions at the bottom to make a clear leap into revolutionary. If black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression.” This quote means to me that to get rid of oppression, we have to hit it at all angles. If black women are not free, then none of us are free. Time and time again, we see the injustice to black women. There is much work to be done, but if it is, then it can cause a chain reaction to ultimately being liberated by the oppressors.
    Identity politics is a movement that helps address race and social background to allies to make an effort to change things around them. In the film “Paris is burning,” we see identity politics play a role in their golden age. Around the gold age, we can see drag queens; gays created a place for them to live out the life that they wished they had. They made a ball that allows them to express themselves as they want to bring out joy and happiness to them. They can be as creative as they want without being judged by people that don’t understand.
    What do race and gender have to do with capitalism? Well, gender and race have been used to ultimately profit by exploiting a particular race or gender. It is more accessible to underpay a person from a different race because they are more vulnerable to the white man. The form of oppression because they aren’t white and the white man means power. In terms of gender, today, women are trying to find equality. The equality to get paid is the same as if a man were to do the job. This is oppression because the higher class still oppresses you, usually referred to as the white man. The film Paris is burning is a perfect example of exploitation. You have Jeannie Livingston, a white woman taking the life of these incredible ballroom dancers and documenting them to gain attention, leading to profit in the end. None of the people she recorded was happy about how things turned out, and of course, she did nothing about it. She continues to profit from these people’s lives.