{"id":11589,"date":"2025-10-05T23:59:00","date_gmt":"2025-10-06T03:59:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/?p=11589"},"modified":"2025-10-05T19:47:17","modified_gmt":"2025-10-05T23:47:17","slug":"discussion-board-6-2-4","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/2025\/10\/05\/discussion-board-6-2-4\/","title":{"rendered":"Discussion Board 6.2"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What concept that we have already discussed does \u201cfaction\u201d remind you of?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The concept of &#8220;faction&#8221; reminds me of social class. Both describe groups with shared interests that compete for power.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Faction in Context: Madison, in Federalist No. 10, defines factions as groups united by common economic or social goals, often clashing with others. He feared their influence on governance.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Link to Social Class: Parenti and Beard show social classes, like the propertied elite versus propertyless masses, drove conflict during the Constitution\u2019s framing. Elites formed a faction to protect wealth, while farmers and laborers pushed their own interests, like debt relief.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Connection: Factions reflect class divisions. Each class acts as a faction, pursuing its agenda, often at odds with others.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I see factions as expressions of class struggles, shaping early American politics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">According to Federalist #10 (written by James Madison), what is the\u00a0<strong>source<\/strong>\u00a0<strong>of\u00a0wealth\u00a0(private\u00a0property)<\/strong>? What factor explains why some people get to possess wealth by owning private property, and others don\u2019t (thus remaining poor)? This is a key question, because it shows how the authors of the Constitution\u00a0<em>thought\u00a0about\u00a0the\u00a0difference\u00a0between\u00a0different\u00a0classes\u00a0of\u00a0Americans!\u00a0<\/em>HINT: focus\u00a0on\u00a0the\u00a0passage\u00a0that\u00a0begins: \u201c<em>The\u00a0diversity\u00a0in\u00a0the\u00a0faculties\u00a0(WHAT DOES FACULTIES mean\u00a0or\u00a0refer\u00a0to?)\u00a0of\u00a0men,\u00a0from\u00a0which\u00a0the\u00a0rights\u00a0of\u00a0property\u00a0originate,\u00a0is\u00a0not\u00a0les\u2026.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">James Madison, ties wealth to private property. He blames unequal &#8220;faculties&#8221; for why some own property and others stay poor. Faculties mean individual talents and efforts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Wealth Source: People gain property through skills like intelligence or hard work. Stronger faculties lead to more wealth.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Inequality Cause: Differences in abilities create gaps. Some use talents to gain property. Others, with less skill or opportunity, stay poor.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Class View: Framers saw wealth gaps as natural. Parenti shows they built the Constitution to shield elite property from the masses.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You see the framers viewed class divides as inevitable. They focused on protecting wealth, not reducing inequality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you agree with this explanation of wealth and poverty?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I agree with Madison\u2019s take that wealth and poverty come from unequal &#8220;faculties,&#8221; meaning individual talents. Still, I think it\u2019s only part of the story.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Madison\u2019s Point: I see how personal skills, like being a sharp merchant or hardworking farmer, lead to wealth. People with stronger abilities often end up with more property.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>My Hesitation: Madison misses structural barriers. Elites rigged the system to keep their wealth, like Parenti shows with property tests that blocked the poor from voting.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Today\u2019s View: I notice talent matters, but systemic issues, like access to education or inherited wealth, shape outcomes more. In 2023, the top 1% owned 32% of wealth, per Federal Reserve data, often due to advantages beyond skill.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I back Madison\u2019s idea that effort drives wealth. But I think systems, not just talents, explain why some stay poor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">James Madison says the US government\u2019s &#8220;first object&#8221; is to protect the &#8220;diversity in the faculties of men,&#8221; meaning individual talents that lead to property rights and wealth gaps. I see it as prioritizing the security of private property.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Core Mission: I understand the government\u2019s job was to guard unequal outcomes from people\u2019s abilities, keeping the wealthy secure. Madison thought this ensured stability.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Surprise Factor: This shocks me. It focuses on elite property, not equality or public good, which feels off compared to what I hear today.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Today\u2019s View: I notice people now expect the government to focus on welfare, fairness, or justice. Think of 2020 BLM protests pushing for racial equality or calls for better healthcare. These suggest serving everyone, not just the rich.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Contrast: Madison\u2019s goal was about protecting wealth. I see today\u2019s push for reducing inequality, like with 37 million Americans below the poverty line in 2023, per Federal Reserve data, driving demands for change.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think Madison\u2019s mission feels outdated. It doesn\u2019t match my sense of government as a tool to tackle inequities, not just protect property.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Given the discussion in questions 1-4, are you surprised that Federalist #10 is not in favor of democracy, and supports a Republican (representative) form of government? Why would d the author dislike a (pure) democratic form of government?\u00a0<em>Hint:\u00a0<\/em>think about how this question connects with the social classes\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019m not shocked that James Madison, in Federalist No. 10, likes a republican government better than pure democracy. As a rich guy, he worried about the poor messing up his wealth, which connects to social classes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Madison\u2019s View: I get that he wants a representative system to control factions, which are like class groups fighting. He thinks elected officials stop crazy majority ideas.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Why He Hates Pure Democracy: I see Madison\u2019s fear that pure democracy lets the poor have too much say. Parenti says the framers, including Madison, thought the masses might take their property. Beard points out most framers owned securities, so they cared about keeping things stable.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Class Link: I understand why Madison, a wealthy elite, wants representatives, usually rich guys, to act as a shield. Pure democracy could let poor people, like those in Shays\u2019 Rebellion pushing for debt relief, take over.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I figured Madison wouldn\u2019t like pure democracy. His focus on saving rich people\u2019s property matches the elite\u2019s class goals. A republic keeps their stuff safe.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What concept that we have already discussed does \u201cfaction\u201d remind you of? The concept of &#8220;faction&#8221; reminds me of social class. Both describe groups with shared interests that compete for power. I see factions as expressions of class struggles, shaping early American politics. According to Federalist #10 (written by James Madison), what is the\u00a0source\u00a0of\u00a0wealth\u00a0(private\u00a0property)? What&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":10945,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"portfolio_post_id":0,"portfolio_citation":"","portfolio_annotation":"","openlab_post_visibility":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11589","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-discussion-board-6-2"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11589","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/10945"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11589"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11589\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11591,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11589\/revisions\/11591"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11589"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11589"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/openlab.bmcc.cuny.edu\/pol-100-0502-fall-2025-introduction-to-american-government\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11589"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}